"Quality in ASL": Some Desperation Morale Spelunking

Michael Dorosh

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I would love to see Charlie share some of his insights and would also be curious about the Mark Nixon post you mention.
When I'm at home I'll look for the memo and if I can find it post it here again. The board in question (20) was apparently originally designed pre-ASL for a historical module called Warsaw: City of Tears. The gully is actually a collapsed sewer which was a significant historical landmark of the Warsaw fighting.
 

Actionjick

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A couple of excerpts, letter dated June 1984

View attachment 17619

View attachment 17620
I find it odd that a SL expansion module was in the works when playtesting for ASL was underway. I'm not sure if Mark was working on ASL at that point. I would have wanted a player of Mark's caliber devoting his time and expertise to ASL. 🤔

I don't recall hearing anything about that module. Anyone here who playtested it?
 

Michael Dorosh

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Well that answers that question!

Still seems like a lot of talent used on a project that never made it.
I haven't sketched out the actual timeline, but I do believe (as you probably already know) there was a belief that that ASLRB would be a simple rewrite of the SL-GI rules and that Squad Leader or perhaps GI would still be the basic "core module." They thought they could update the Russians, use the German, British, and American counters from GI as state of the art, and start working in Pacific and Italian modules. At some point - don't know when off hand but they seem to have been candid enough about it in the GENERAL - they realized they would have to start over and just reissue everything since it was an opportunity to rework the rules from the ground up - defensive fire, rates of fire, armour penetration model, the works.

I am guessing MILA 18 survived, along with those city boards, to go into Beyond Valor.
 

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I haven't sketched out the actual timeline, but I do believe (as you probably already know) there was a belief that that ASLRB would be a simple rewrite of the SL-GI rules and that Squad Leader or perhaps GI would still be the basic "core module." They thought they could update the Russians, use the German, British, and American counters from GI as state of the art, and start working in Pacific and Italian modules. At some point - don't know when off hand but they seem to have been candid enough about it in the GENERAL - they realized they would have to start over and just reissue everything since it was an opportunity to rework the rules from the ground up - defensive fire, rates of fire, armour penetration model, the works.

I am guessing MILA 18 survived, along with those city boards, to go into Beyond Valor.
I distinctly remember writing to Mac when we got the first installment of the ASL rules. I was amazed at the changes as I was not expecting much more than a rewrite and consolidation of SL. But it was much more than that as we know.
 

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I distinctly remember writing to Mac when we got the first installment of the ASL rules. I was amazed at the changes as I was not expecting much more than a rewrite and consolidation of SL. But it was much more than that as we know.
Lol I'd ask him: did this really change? Where did that rule go? All sorts of unhelpful questions like that. Then just accepted the new reality and got to work.
 

Tuomo

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Re-reading Mark's post while also going through the final rounds of quality-checking the Manila map.

One map-related quality thing that I don't think Mark mentioned is the sheer amount of attention to detail that goes into making a map that doesn't hinder play. Simply put, there are many ways that map artwork can get in the way of play, either by being hard to visually discern or by being confusing to interpret, rules-wise.

I thought I was good at this, just from my years of doing dozens of VASL maps, where every pixel has to be right, or at least not-wrong. But these last few months have shown me that Perry, Klas, and Chas are just impressive this way. Sure, the Manila map has over 8300 hexes, but I've strolled through that map dozens of times just looking for things to clarify or fix. And yet these MMP guys have caught a bunch of things I'd missed or never even thought of. And without those fixes, people would have questions about how to play what's on the map. And that's not good ASL.

Visual things like making sure hex IDs are easy to read and not obscured by the underlying terrain. Making sure Bypass Movement is obviously NA by having terrain touch the hexside (but not go over!) if possible. Making sure LOS is not messed up by having edges of LOS obstacles being obscured in some way. Even just making sure the text characteristics are consistent throughout the map - all water bodies are labeled in the same way, all buildings, all roads, etc.

And then the subtle things like making it obvious whether units can move from one hex to another of the same building while staying entirely within the building outline itself - not so easy when you're trying to mimic historical buildings or buildings that are partially destroyed, like we have in Manila.

All of this painstaking effort means that people will spend less time fighting the map and more time playing ASL. And that attention to quality is what makes MMP a pleasure to work with and buy from.
 

M Faulkner

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Re-reading Mark's post while also going through the final rounds of quality-checking the Manila map.

One map-related quality thing that I don't think Mark mentioned is the sheer amount of attention to detail that goes into making a map that doesn't hinder play. Simply put, there are many ways that map artwork can get in the way of play, either by being hard to visually discern or by being confusing to interpret, rules-wise.

I thought I was good at this, just from my years of doing dozens of VASL maps, where every pixel has to be right, or at least not-wrong. But these last few months have shown me that Perry, Klas, and Chas are just impressive this way. Sure, the Manila map has over 8300 hexes, but I've strolled through that map dozens of times just looking for things to clarify or fix. And yet these MMP guys have caught a bunch of things I'd missed or never even thought of. And without those fixes, people would have questions about how to play what's on the map. And that's not good ASL.

Visual things like making sure hex IDs are easy to read and not obscured by the underlying terrain. Making sure Bypass Movement is obviously NA by having terrain touch the hexside (but not go over!) if possible. Making sure LOS is not messed up by having edges of LOS obstacles being obscured in some way. Even just making sure the text characteristics are consistent throughout the map - all water bodies are labeled in the same way, all buildings, all roads, etc.

And then the subtle things like making it obvious whether units can move from one hex to another of the same building while staying entirely within the building outline itself - not so easy when you're trying to mimic historical buildings or buildings that are partially destroyed, like we have in Manila.

All of this painstaking effort means that people will spend less time fighting the map and more time playing ASL. And that attention to quality is what makes MMP a pleasure to work with and buy from.
Tom, you have taught me a lot over the past year! You are correct.
 

Perry

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One map-related quality thing that I don't think Mark mentioned is the sheer amount of attention to detail that goes into making a map that doesn't hinder play.
A lot of talented people put a lot of hard work into getting a HASL up and running. In the case of the Manila map, Tuomo and ASLSARGE top that list.
And then there's the rules. ;)
 

Perry

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I am guessing MILA 18 survived, along with those city boards, to go into Beyond Valor.
I never heard of the "City of Bitter Tears" project before. That must have been Rex's baby and overtaken by ASL.

I knew he had designed several Ghetto Uprising scenarios beside Mila 18, but the word was they didn't quite work. Which is understandable, as that is a very difficult "battle" to simulate in ASL. The 1944 Uprising is tough enough. The several early scenarios on that "campaign" are likely Rex's work also, probably from this project.
 

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I never heard of the "City of Bitter Tears" project before. That must have been Rex's baby and overtaken by ASL.

I knew he had designed several Ghetto Uprising scenarios beside Mila 18, but the word was they didn't quite work. Which is understandable, as that is a very difficult "battle" to simulate in ASL. The 1944 Uprising is tough enough. The several early scenarios on that "campaign" are likely Rex's work also, probably from this project.
We were in frequent contact with Mac back then and I just don't recall any mention of this. Of course a lot of refreshments have flowed under the bridge since then so who knows.
 

ASLSARGE

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I'm one of the few people who played (playtested) scenarios on the first version of the Manila map--in which the buildings did not (at all) respect the hexgrid! :)
FWIW.....I still have copies of all the versions of that HASL map. It was a lot of effort to adapt the original version so it would be more "ASL-ish" as it were.
 
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