Proposals for future EA updates

[Telumar]

Here we go. While Dierk is doing the fighting (lol..see the Baku/Grozny etc thread) i found two things:

- The Breslau Industry, set to disband its 3000 sqads into the Axis replacement pool on turn 80 (end of 1940) contains a handfull of T-34/85. No comment on that - just do away with them or replace them with contemporary german designs.
The same is true for the Cologne Industry which disbands in January 42.

- German PzKorps. If i am right, units reconstitute if their first-in-the-list equipment is at 66%, right? If so, then the German PzKorps will need a different 'first listed' equipment. Currently this is Pz 38t or Pz IIIF. Both equipment's production will end some time. Maybe their Infantry Squads would be better suited as a 'first listed' equipment. Apart from the fact that it would be nonsense if the Germans couldn't reconstitute a Panzer unit late in the war just because of the lack of early war models: No doubt the Gröfaz would (and indeed has iirc) raise Panzer Units (any units..?) without regarding how many tanks are actually available. Changing the list can be done in ODD i think. Or via exporting the OOB in .xml format and changing it directly in the resulting file.

 

[Mark Stevens]

Fair point. I think we had the T34s because a handful of Axis units did get them (maybe the Finns, or eastern Europeans?). If we drop them someone will need to do a bug hunt and delete those units' T34 slots.

I always found that the Editor automatically assigned the order of troops and equipment within individual units, and never did work out how to change them around other than by altering the proportions, which spoiled their rigid historical accuracy. Ahem.

 

[Telumar]

It's just 50 pieces. Yes the Finns captured them from the russians, but nevertheless they are not the early model as captured by the Finns.

The early model will be "produced" by the Axis from turn 90 to 150. Then this will change to the late model. German Mot and Mech Corps have slots for the T 34/85, i don't know where the early ones will go to, maybe the Finns, but in my current game they are no more.

May i propose:Just leave this as is, replace Breslau Industry's tanks by the early model. Make sure the Finns have free slots for the early model. Done. Or: Move these tanks into a separate unit which will only be disbanded if the Finns are still alive in Winter 40/41.

 

[sPzAbt653]

... via exporting the OOB in .xml format and changing it directly in the resulting file.

This works but if I remember correctly, if you ever open the scenario in the editor again, it will reset to the original.

I have no knowledge of EA, but I did take a look at the Pz Corps to see what might be done about the first line 38t's. Changing them to 196/260 38t's at start will move the HRS's to the first line, which will change the icon viewed in the upper right display to 'infantry' (not so nice). The subtracted 64 could be added to the 'on hand' at start. You could get even wilder by reducing the HRS's and 38t's until the IVE's are the first line (giving a nice panzer icon in the unit view). Just a thought.

 

[Veers]

Yeah, it can be done. I was messing with it before and believe that I was able to keep whatever equipment I wanted at top. Was thinking of changing the top equipment to German Rifle Squads 9formerly HRS) or a more complex plan of TOs where you can disband the 'early war' German PzK (with early war equipment) for mid and/or late war versions of those PzKorps.

EDIT: Another good example of this is the British RAF Heavy Bomber Units. I've just lost 2 of the four, and because it's turn 142 and Whitley's (their #1 equipment slot) are no longer produced and I'm out of them, I will not get those two Heavy Bomber units back, even though I have plenty of the other equipment types in the unit.

 

[Veers]

It's just 50 pieces. Yes the Finns captured them from the russians, but nevertheless they are not the early model as captured by the Finns.

The early model will be "produced" by the Axis from turn 90 to 150. Then this will change to the late model. German Mot and Mech Corps have slots for the T 34/85, i don't know where the early ones will go to, maybe the Finns, but in my current game they are no more.

May i propose:Just leave this as is, replace Breslau Industry's tanks by the early model. Make sure the Finns have free slots for the early model. Done. Or: Move these tanks into a separate unit which will only be disbanded if the Finns are still alive in Winter 40/41.

Something to keep in mind.

 

[arclight]

couple of points:
- Playing Jason, I noticed MANY of the UK forces reconstructing in Holland after the UK was pummeled by the Axis invasion. Also noticed one unit reconstruct in Switzerland...
- ditto for the US airforce units. I thought they would reconstruct in the US.
- The Free Polish INF Div I have reconstructed in Crimea. Is that to happen?

I was wondering about the units gear effecting their reconstruction. Would a new unit to convert the older handle it, or is the OOB unit limit that prevents it? Several units are good for the early war, but would be redesigned as the war progressed, I assume.

Overall, as a newbie to EA, I like it! Can't wait to see how it plays with the update.

 

[Telumar]

BUMP!

..not only...

Gentlemen, some more proposals:

- set a MRPB
- adjust certain supply points to a lower level (Petsamo, Murmansk)
- nation specific squads
- no french tanks for turkish partisans... no tanks for partisans at all...
- maybe a house rule to limit axis units in the Petsamo/Murmansk region..


Is anyone actually working/updating on this?

 

[Heldenkaiser]

- maybe a house rule to limit axis units in the Petsamo/Murmansk region..

BTW it turns out that Murmansk is basically unreachable from Russia proper without RRs. The terrain's simply impossible. So when the Axis goes for Murmansk really determinedly, chances are it's lost for Russia for good. Don't know if that makes sense; it well may.

Anoher oddity is this: when the SU gets air units as reinforcements behind the Urals (i.e. behind the unplayable hexes line), they have real problems flying out of there, the reason apparently being that air units have to fly in a straight line from airfield to airfield. I don't recall how I solved this, but it was a real pain in the a***. Sometimes units simply got stuck in the middle of nowhere. Maybe it should be so that airfields behind the Urals should be placed behind the playable hex gaps. Don't know if I'm making sense ...

 

[Telumar]

BTW it turns out that Murmansk is basically unreachable from Russia proper without RRs. The terrain's simply impossible. So when the Axis goes for Murmansk really determinedly, chances are it's lost for Russia for good. Don't know if that makes sense; it well may.

:devious:

Anoher oddity is this: when the SU gets air units as reinforcements behind the Urals (i.e. behind the unplayable hexes line), they have real problems flying out of there, the reason apparently being that air units have to fly in a straight line from airfield to airfield. I don't recall how I solved this, but it was a real pain in the a***. Sometimes units simply got stuck in the middle of nowhere. Maybe it should be so that airfields behind the Urals should be placed behind the playable hex gaps. Don't know if I'm making sense ...

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[AdrianE]

I was reading a couple of the AARs.

One thing struck me is that the authors of this scenario really need to read Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze and the relevant WWII chapters from Supplying War by Martin van Creveld. There is some flat out crazy ahistorical capability granted to various powers but especially the Axis.

Those massive German armies in Eastern Turkey should be starving to death not attacking. Egypt should never fall to the Axis as they didn't have the capability to supply an army there.

Extra German panzer forces were utterly beyond the german economy's ability. Tooze makes it clear that the German economy was on full war footing from the mid 1930s. He shows that the "Speer Miracle" was a fraud.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Egypt should never fall to the Axis as they didn't have the capability to supply an army there.

I agree. Having read Creveld too, the fall of Egypt really surprised me. I was confident I could hold there, easily, as I did indeed expected the Germans to be unable to supply an offensive from Tripolitania.

 

[Telumar]

Some perspectives regarding the fall of Egypt..

From the game engine perspective: i simply attacked relentlessly, accepting horrible losses and it worked.

From the scenario design perspective: I was able to field more units than was historically the case. The scenario legitimates this with the Axis seizure of Malta, which surely would have increased supply security to North Africa and Cyprus. The fall of these two islands gave me additional German forces. I believe i also fielded more Italians in North Africa than was historically the case.

Regarding the fall of Malta and increased security for Axis supply: Well, however secure supply shipments to NA are, there are still limits: Available tonnage, port capacity etc. The fall of Malta enabled an Axis supply point at Bizerte(?). So far so good. My estimation is that maybe an additional german division could have been supplied, but in the scenario it's an additional Corps (a supply hungry motorized PzGren Corps) plus an additional division plus an additional "Flak Div". I recognize this is too much.
Apart from better design and house rules (i.e. limiting also Italian Units in NA) there can't be done much. Unless we would have volume based supply. This is also true for Turkey. As in TOAW one supply point can supply an indefinite number of units there's no other way than house rules. Furthermore this is a more strategical scenario, something that TOAW hasn't been designed for in the first place.

Should i feel guilty for stretching history/realism too much...? I don't know... but at least as long as we have fun playing the scenario it's okay.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Should i feel guilty for stretching history/realism too much...?

Most decidedly not.

 

[Telumar]

Re: Proposals for future EA updates / Equipment Quirks and climate bug(?)

Date: June, 1941.

Formation: Moscow-line, Unit: I SU Alt.

100+ SU-85 (fielded second half/end of '43)
100+ SU-100 (fielded February '45)


Meanwhile some of the Eastern Reserve Corps field quite some Tigers and Panthers (we had this before..).


Italian XVII Arm Corps enters in spring '41, fully equipped with 1942 and '43 versions of their Semovente Assault Gun.


The northern two Climate Zones are Cold. (in June)