Proposals for 3.4(b)

Karri

Member
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
600
Reaction score
0
Location
Malta
Country
llMalta
I'll have to agree with the others, the panzergrenadier divisions aint worth anything. I'd rather have a regular infantry corps...
 

Mark Stevens

Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
5
Location
London (United Kingd
Country
ll
Not a nice little 5 - 9 mechanised with a move of 12 and 80% proficiency? Ungrateful lot that you are. :cry:

(Incidentally, in case I've given the wrong impression in earlier posts, I wouldn't consider Gibraltar to be a Mediterranean 'island': it's a key port like Alexandria, and for the purposes of a scenario of this scale, open to land attack from both Europe and Africa.)
 

Mark Stevens

Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
5
Location
London (United Kingd
Country
ll
Attached are zips of the proposed scenario and briefing revisions.

I'll leave them here for a while before posting them above and on other scenario depots in case anyone does find time to look through them and spot any really grisly errors (e.g 'Axis capture of Grozny ends the game in an Allied victory' - my finest design moment!)

Obviously can't expect anyone to play the thing just to test it, but if anyone does feel like pressing a few Theatre Options in different combinations, moving onto Cyprus to see whether the 'Afrika' units do deploy, etc., I'd be glad to hear the results.

No weeping from prospective panzer generals about the Soviet Pre-War Builds, in the unlikely event that they work.

__________________________

'And now, while the trees stand watching, still
The unequal combat rages there.
The killing beast, that cannot kill,
Swells and swells in fury till,
You'd almost think it was despair'

Edwin Muir 'The Combat'
 

Mantis

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
3
Location
Edmonton, AB, Canada
Country
llCanada
Mark Stevens said:
Or maybe that one bonus panzer that appears if London falls - you could argue that that is less likely to be needed, and there isn't much justification for it anyway? That seems to be the best candidate.
There you go! Perfect choice.

If the Axis player always mobilises Spain just to get Gibraltar and activate that one panzer corps, he'll face the loss of the not insubstantial Vichy forces and their replacement by the Admiral Darlan French. Is that one corps so vitally important in a game of this size?
True enough. It's been a while since an Axis opponent activated Spain. Viri just did it to me, and I was surprised how many French forces I received. Seems to be quite a few more than I remember from last time 'round - but that was quite some time ago.

I'm hoping that by having the 1930s Soviet units mobilising the Axis Pre-War Build Option isn't going to be such a regular choice as it seems to be at present. Hell, since we're giving the Allied player so much extra metal, why not make it another experimental OKH Panzercorps? Damn thing's pretty weedy with its Panzer I & IIs anyhow. Poor old panzergrenadiers.
Sounds good to me. (I hope you weren't being sarcastic, lol)
 

Mantis

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
3
Location
Edmonton, AB, Canada
Country
llCanada
Mark Stevens said:
Attached are zips of the proposed scenario and briefing revisions.
Are these including the changes we discussed above, like the London Pz Korps, dropping the PG in favor of a Pz, etc?
 

Mantis

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
3
Location
Edmonton, AB, Canada
Country
llCanada
Mark Stevens said:
(Incidentally, in case I've given the wrong impression in earlier posts, I wouldn't consider Gibraltar to be a Mediterranean 'island': it's a key port like Alexandria, and for the purposes of a scenario of this scale, open to land attack from both Europe and Africa.)
Land attack from Africa? I hope those boys are strong swimmers!

:eek:
 

Mark Stevens

Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
5
Location
London (United Kingd
Country
ll
"True enough. It's been a while since an Axis opponent activated Spain. Viri just did it to me, and I was surprised how many French forces I received. Seems to be quite a few more than I remember from last time 'round - but that was quite some time ago."

Easiest and most realistic thing was to duplicate the Vichy formations as 'Admiral Darlan' units if they revert back to Allied control. Better proficiency, as I think they'd be more willing to fight for the Allies, and slots - not in their Vichy equivalents - for a limited supply of mainly US hardware to beef them up if they live that long.

Zips include all the changes - did drop the bonus London panzer corps, and the giant railway gun, but left the Pre-War Builds as:

Germany: two 10-15 Light armoured corps; two 5-9 Panzergrenadier divisions; one 5-4 Anti-tank brigade; one 11-2 Motorised artillery brigade; one 6-7 Mechanised reconnaissance corps; one 4-6 Waffen SS paratroop division and one 1-6 Waffen SS fighter unit (Himmler wins the political battle with Goering for a separate SS Air Force)

Soviet Union: two 11-14 Mechanised armies; three 9-12 Motorised armies and three 6-12 Infantry shock corps

I'm talking balls re Gibraltar, aren't I? It's only connected to the north.
 

Bdr.Mallette

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
1,087
Reaction score
0
Location
Canada
Country
llCanada
Afrika Corps

Hey,

Regarding the Africa situation,
would it be better to have OOBs dedicated to that theater of Ops and have 1 or maybe 2 T.O.'s available to the Axis player in regards to this?
The Allies will most surely protect Africa and their colonies but would Germany concern itself with the entire N.Africa coast? If T.O. selected, AfriKa OOB becomes active and events can be connected with this T.O. Such as withdrawing or adding of Allied forces and the same with Axis forces. (not all units will need an event to activate themselves).
I dunno, maybe a simpler solution 'cept for the fact you made need a few events to do all this (8-10...ish).
 

Mark Stevens

Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
5
Location
London (United Kingd
Country
ll
Only eight or ten! I think that it's worth trying the proposed solution. As (if) the Axis capture the key Mediterranean islands and ports more high proficiency Gerrman units will automatically become available to be sent to North Africa, although they don't have to be. This nicely reflects the idea that the Axis supply and shipping situation improves, without allowing the entire German Army to be sent to the area.

If the Axis units in the Middle East, bolstered by the Armee Group Afrika formation, can knock the Allies out of Egypt they can still try the southern route into the Caucasus. Or the Germans can initiate a campaign to drive through Turkey, although this may allow Stalin to launch his own pre-emptive strike.

Even without being so ambitious, they should still be able to give the Allies a run for their money in North Africa and the Middle East.

Or, as the German General Staff recommended, the Italians could consider staying neutral.

I'd like to give this a try - if several players reckon that it doesn't work, it's 3.4 (c)!
 

Bdr.Mallette

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
1,087
Reaction score
0
Location
Canada
Country
llCanada
Hello Mark,

So my possible solution may be an okay one?! lol

Also, if you are going to have a separate OOB for Afrika(both sides), would it be best to have the units at smaller combat size, div's instead of Corps? and the like.
Also, is there any equipment in the database that is really effective but mostly only effective in desert regions? If there is, this could be an incentive to only move those units to that theatre of Ops and not move them to Norway, Russia, Spain etc, the same will go for the Alllies. Or screw it, don't have the allies units enter in England or N.America, have them arrive in Afrika, but with very low equipment, making the player wait till it is at strength before he dares move it into any kind of position, even defensive... but then you may have to have 1 or 2 'equipment units' disbanded or withdrawn to compensate for the lack of equipment(wouldn't hard coding be an asset sometimes?). But then again, the allies aren't as hungry for equipment as the Axis are in the beginning 2 years... well that would depend on the players I guess.

hmmmmmm!
 

Mark Stevens

Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
5
Location
London (United Kingd
Country
ll
Sorry, I was being ironic when I wrote about 'only' eight or ten events being needed to implement your suggestion.

I'd rather stick with the idea of mobilising German Panzer Group Afrika units as the Mediterranean Islands and ports fall as per my last zip.

If anyone's still playing in a few months and we start getting feedback on how it's working I might have to take another look.
 

Mantis

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
3
Location
Edmonton, AB, Canada
Country
llCanada
I'm testing this right now with Mike. Will keep you informed! So far, it's going good. Mike has been able to rout the 'invincible' LL armor every single turn, (even when stacked with the 50th motor-infantry div, etc), but the Brit lines are holding firm aside from this. The Italians are wearing down from the constant assaults, but are able to rotate fresh units into the fray.

MUCH too early to say, but from the turns we've gone through so far, it appears to be heading in the right direction (read: I'm not defending at Cairo yet!)

:laugh:
 

Karri

Member
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
600
Reaction score
0
Location
Malta
Country
llMalta
Hmm. Why are there sea supply roads to Norway? Doesn't this make it a little too easy for Allies to invade and hold it? Why not just place a supply point in Narvik?
 

Mark Stevens

Europe Aflame Forum Moderator
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
5
Location
London (United Kingd
Country
ll
There's only one, running from Scapa Flow to Trondheim and Narvik, and it's meant to simulate the ability of the Royal Navy to supply Allied contingents fighting in the north (which it did).

There is one Allied/Axis supply point in Oslo, but there aren't any more spares to put a separate one in the north - I'd need to remove an Allied SP from somewhere else.
 

Mantis

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
3
Location
Edmonton, AB, Canada
Country
llCanada
Mark, are there any restrictions to Axis air in Africa, following the line of reasoning that we've taken? I mean, the entire Luftwaffe in Africa is a stretch - what's your take on it?
 

JAMiAM

TOAW III Project Manager
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Messages
2,780
Reaction score
1
Location
Standing in the way
Mantis said:
Mark, are there any restrictions to Axis air in Africa, following the line of reasoning that we've taken? I mean, the entire Luftwaffe in Africa is a stretch - what's your take on it?
Not enough airfields for that, barring some massive attrition of the Luftwaffe.

While we're at it though, and on the subject, I find the lack of airfields in Western Germany to be distressing. It's hard to get all the short-ranged air units in range of the front lines when conducting an offensive against France. Can't complain too much since it's turn 17 and the Eiffel Tower's in sight... ;)
 

Siberian HEAT

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Messages
2,069
Reaction score
1
Location
Cheyenne Mtn, CO
Country
llUnited States
I've often thought that at 25km scale EVERY hex probably has at least one airstrip capable of landing WW2-era craft. At the very least, every city/town should also come with an airfield, just as a rule.

OK, some hexes in Norway might be exempt from the above statement. :halo:
 

Mantis

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Messages
6,239
Reaction score
3
Location
Edmonton, AB, Canada
Country
llCanada
The northern ones, at any rate... ;)

Actually, I have to agree. I wouldn't complain to see a few more airfields in W. Germany. The UK as well, to be frank.
 

Karri

Member
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
600
Reaction score
0
Location
Malta
Country
llMalta
My axis air untis near Egypt are being massacred because the enemy can position thousands of planes there while my fighters are out of range no matter what direction they come from.
 
Top