Proposal: WarfareHQ Politico-military Roleplay/MBX

Ivan Rapkinov

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just me again...

going through some old notes, I came across an old assessment I did at uni: it was a roleplay, organised and umpired by a Professor at the University of Dublin, where the tutorial class was divided into teams, then given a scenario that they had to work out to some conclusion

the assessment was done in two stages: first stage was the extended diplomatic angle - the groups had their own msg boards, and then they could send the umpire "press releases" which would be posted to the other groups.

The second stage was a sit down face to face meeting between the groups to discuss the situation to a conclusion.

Example: the scn given was in the Gaza strip, an terrorist group had seized a group of hostages, and was threatening to kill them unless the Israelis withdrew from the Occupied Territories - there were reports of children, and importantly, americans being in amongst the hostages.

the teams were..

Israel, PA, Hamas, Jordan, and the US

I was on the Israeli team as Minister of Defence (I advocated Sayaret Matkal storming the place, but the umpire wouldn't let me...) and, due to various reasons, I became the focal point of the Israeli team - which meant we were waaay in the Hawk camp :D

suffice to say, one of the terrs was a former Iraqi nuclear scientist (ofc), and that meant the US wasa heavy player. Curtin Uni being full of leftist commie peaceniks, everyone wanted Israel to get hammered, which made it fun doing all sorts of things: my personal faves were the IDF "shoot on sight" law I brought in in the West Bank, and the, "bulldozing new roads" attempts. Even though my team lost, it was well worth it, and considering the knowledge and maturity we have here, I thought it might work well.

but, this is a wargaming forum, and there must be War! So the scn have in mind, whilst topical, should appeal to people here.

see next post for the proposed scn...
 

Ivan Rapkinov

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the scn...

Where: Tarawa, Kirabati
When: in the near future
Who: China, US, Kirabati (Pro-China & Pro-US forces), Australia.

Kiribati President Anote Tong cut diplomatic ties with China after coming into Power in Novemember, 2003, and transferred it;s allegience to Taipei. The strategic outcome of this was that China was forced to close a satellite monitoring station on Tarawa atoll. However, not all parties were satisfied with this turn of events.

Kiribati Opposition leader, Harry Tong (the President's brother), feared that Taiwan was the danger to Kiribati, not mainland China, whom he saw as a friend and beneficial. In August of 2004, President Tong feared that China's refusal to withdraw the last of it's staff from it's Kiribati embassy was an attmept to influence Kiribati politics.

President Tong:
We are always concerned because you must ask the question, what are their objectives and you begin to imagine a number of things. Ofc it could be PRCs expectation of a change of attitude. How would that come about? Either we chnage our attitude, or we have a chnage of government.

Kiribati, while politically calm, is a small country, and with resources and outside assistance anything can be done in a very short time
fast forward to early 2005 - the US missile defence tests on Kwaljein Atoll force the PRC to examine the possibility of regime change in order to re-establish, and if necessary increase the size of the satellite station on Tarawa - which means supporting the Kiribati opposition - with PLAN marines if that's what it takes.

Simultaneously, a Joint-USMC ADF lite Battalion Task Force (one company and support each) deploys to Kiribati under the auspice of Exercise: Pacific Partners, a humanitarian support operation for the Cyclone ravaged Rawaki island group; but one that is also acting as a coalition training ex.

Thus a PLAN amphibious fleet is steaming to Kiribati at the behest of the Opposition leader Tong, who plans to use the Chinese military backing to unseat his brother, and re-establish relations with mainland China. The USMC-ADF force, whilst joint, is responisble to each othe countries relative governments first, rather than each other. And the Kiribati people are divided, and swap sides according to woos them the most effecitvely...

okay, now the scene is set, time to talk logistics :) We need at least 3 teams, with the umpire (me I guess), being the Kiribati people (both of them). I'd like to have four teams, so there can be a UN to order people about :p

The first phase may go for a while: the diplomatic stage - this is where it's not a wargame, so you can play just on the forum, but eventually, I expect there to be conflict of some kind...

the Chinese: your goal s possession of the Tarawa satellite station, and hopefully a sympathetic government (but not necessarily)

US: your goal is maintaining the status quo (but remember Us support Taiwan, and should oppose a PRC listening station.)

ADF: your goal is to protect the Kiribati people, whilst maintaining good relations with both the US and China (this may mean the ADF forces end up opposing US action...

Kiribati ppl: (if there is enough ppl, two Kiribati teams would be good, otherwise I'll play pro-US or pro-china kiribatese) your goal is either to support Presiden Tong or his brother - up to you. Kiribatese players will also constitute the UN, otherwise they'll get bored...

remember, this first phase has no military action (but each side should appoint a player to be the commander on scene so there's that element) so it;s all about diplomacy - use every trick you know, have heard of, or even dreamt about. No holds barred - get what result your team is after and don;t hold back.

once it reaches a point where conflict is unavoidable, we'll try and host a TacOps CPX, (or other game system CPX) to decide the final outcome.

if the idea takes off, perhaps we could have a dedicated forum for it so it's all structred nicely. And if it works, maybe someone can come up with another scn for us to play :)

cheers,

Jim

ps. if it's a silly idea, say so. Likewise, if you think it;s a good idea, and people from other forums would be interested (and participate in a maturish manner ;) ) by all means invite them along :)
 

Scully

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Hey Ivan,

I think it's a great idea. I'd probably consider playing depending on time constraints...I'm already a participant in another, rather large MBX (in addition to the rest of my life).

With respect to the scenario itself, I think it might not be such a bad thing to have a political only component. Though it is always fun to get the military involved.

Take care,
Brian
 

Temujin

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What! no seething undercurrent of ethnic conflict ready to burst out like a festering pusshole? :D

Anyway, good idea. I'll be an Aussie, political not military, i don't play the games you will probably use. Although, it sounds like it is an interesting way to run a campaign involving the polital factor and could probably fit well in the Island Civil War campaign type of setup in the Steel Panthers section, check out how that is setup.

Maybe we could work out some sort of hybrid.
 

Ivan Rapkinov

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Scully: was thinking maybe 1 real week = 1 game day...nothing hardcore or time consuming :)
 

CPangracs

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I would play only if I can be Frodo!

Seriously, though, I've never participated in something like this before, and I'm intrigued. I would love to be involved in any capacity.

Is there room for a "Chesty Puller-type", Pull-no-punches Chairman of the Joint Chiefs?


Also, maybe someone could use Raging Tiger to work out the lower level military conflict? Just a thought.
 

Ivan Rapkinov

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mr clark: that'd be good - PRC players will be ahrd to find methinks

Curt: play how you want ;) As long as there's some semblance to realism, you can push as hard as you like for your preferred outcome :)
 

Temujin

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CPangracs said:
I would play only if I can be Frodo!

Seriously, though, I've never participated in something like this before, and I'm intrigued. I would love to be involved in any capacity.

Is there room for a "Chesty Puller-type", Pull-no-punches Chairman of the Joint Chiefs?


Also, maybe someone could use Raging Tiger to work out the lower level military conflict? Just a thought.
Oh no, here comes WW3! :p
 

Double Deuce

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Ivan Rapkinov said:
ps. if it's a silly idea, say so. Likewise, if you think it;s a good idea, and people from other forums would be interested (and participate in a maturish manner ;) ) by all means invite them along :)
Actually it is a good idea and something that has been touched on before. Maybe combining several wargames in a grand strategy campaign where the actual combat is fought out using some of the games supported here at WFHQ. For example, using Harpoon for the Naval Combat and TacOps/POA-2/Steel Panthers MBT for the ground Combat. It would be a major undertaking and require several staff members to run, especially since we would need a core of players familiar with each game used and those needed to oversee the political/admin component.

I am currently running something (on a lot smaller scale :D ) in the Steel Panthers Section. No one can see it because all the important activity is taking place in "secure forums" here at WFHQ and thus 95% of everything going on is hidden from normal member view. :cry:
 

danstudentvcc

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Double Deuce said:
Actually it is a good idea ...
I am currently running something (on a lot smaller scale :D ) in the Steel Panthers Section. No one can see it because all the important activity is taking place in "secure forums" here at WFHQ and thus 95% of everything going on is hidden from normal member view. :cry:
Oh ! That's explains why I've been going in circles .. I thought it was becuase I was too dense to figure out how the links were organized.

:dead:

It took alot of time to figure out the WW2 one was inaccessible.

:hush:
 
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Ivan Rapkinov

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Double Deuce said:
Actually it is a good idea and something that has been touched on before. Maybe combining several wargames in a grand strategy campaign where the actual combat is fought out using some of the games supported here at WFHQ. For example, using Harpoon for the Naval Combat and TacOps/POA-2/Steel Panthers MBT for the ground Combat. It would be a major undertaking and require several staff members to run, especially since we would need a core of players familiar with each game used and those needed to oversee the political/admin component.
umm, that's a traditional MBX, but, I'm more interested in people gaming out the political side than the military to be honest - MBXs using multiple systems are a pain to organise and manage too.

this roleplay is more about people using everything at their limited disposal to come up with a solution for their side.

ie. if I was playing thr PRC player, the first thing I would do would be to order a SF team to the Kiribati Embassy, going through Malaysia and posing as tourists from Taiwan if necesary. I'd be organising with the proChina kiribatese to prepare a list of suspect officials. This ofc brings to the Kiribatese player's attention that if their is a coup, it won't be on their terms - therefore they have to play the Chinese off against the US, and so on.

The SPMBT Civil War campaign is different in the fact that the desired outcome of the maneuvering is combat; in the roleplay, combat is the least desiered outcome (but it probably will happen)

as the scn is in the ether, there is no limit to the OBs, dirty tricks, etc etc you can think of. Whatever comes into your mind, if it's realsistic, it can be included :)

as for using TacOps, I only suggested that due to the multiple teams in CPXs - SPMBT, and even RT, restrict you to two teams - tacops allows you to have 4 different teams each with their own orders phases and ROEs.
 

Lt. Dan

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This sounds similar to something I've been doing for a while now on AOL. It's called World Simming and it involves a group of people who get together on a mailstring and act as the leaders of different countries. The forum itself has a leadership and an advisory board to rule on the legality and realism of each post that is made. For example, if you're Germany and you want to push through some type of reform, you make a post in the third person, as if a news agency is reporting this, outlining your reform. Then everyone else in the forum reacts to this, and a Political Advisor comes along and decides how your government and people react. It can be quite fun at times, but the major flaw of the Forums is the fact that rulings are made based solely on the advisor's perceptions and opinions of the situation which causes alot of anger and frusturation if the advisor makes a bad or unfair ruling. Because of this, the forums collapse very quickly and easy but are soon restarted under new leadership and another name. It's a great lesson in how not to run an organization.

Anyway, I would definitely like to take part in this game in any way. It sounds like fun.
 

Sunburn

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The Europe-88 Project and its child "Mini-Battles" series is very much an implementation of this concept. It combines Harpoon 3 for air and naval warfare, TOAW for operational land combat and SPMBT for CAS/BAI resolution. Have a look here:
http://www.harpoonhq.com/Europe88/

Mini-Battle 2: Hamburg Corridor is currently in preparation.
 

ER_Chaser

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Ivan Rapkinov said:
mr clark: that'd be good - PRC players will be ahrd to find methinks

Curt: play how you want ;) As long as there's some semblance to realism, you can push as hard as you like for your preferred outcome :)
PRC? ... Mr. Clark? ... hmm... when talking about commies, how can you guys miss out me? ME? :D

But the question is what kind of engine are we going to use when come to war?

I have CS, CM, TOAW. I do not have TacOp.
 

Jim H. Moreno

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Sounds very interesting, indeed. Very similar to what I'm seeing in the game Crusader Kings (under review now), although this is limited, whereas your version is only limited to imagination. I can dig it.
 

Ivan Rapkinov

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well, any engine will do - as I said, the combat part is not as important as the political aspect.

Sunburn - Europe 88 is good, but a bit too large scale, with the sides clearly drawn. Hopefully in this scn, things get a bit murkier, especially with Australia's historic aquiesence to Chinese proposals. Chuck in a nasty little civil war in the making, and you have failed states that need propping up :D
 

airBiscuit

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This sounds like a great idea. Not sure if I have time to participate in it, though.

It seems to me that a majority of the players shouldn't have to worry about any combat engine or game system at all. If this is to feel like geo-political intrigue, then military action is simply a tool. The referee can resolve military conflict, their outcomes and their aftereffects, any way he chooses. It might be gut reaction, it might be flipping a coin, it might be a full-fledged simulation. Doesn't matter to the politician. He or she just needs to know that it is going well, or not going well. You are far and away from any tactical considerations at this level. I think this is what Ivan is trying to say regarding the game systems.

I wonder if it is wise to have the scenario laid out with everyone's objectives in plain view. Half of the challenge of negotiation is figuring out just what the other guys want and balancing that guess against the concessions you are willing to put forth. If everyone knows what the other wants for certain, then the bargaining will probably stonewall very quickly since no one will budge in any direction, and we'll jump right into warfare. Seems to me that every 'side' in this needs to have a secret agenda that the other sides need to try to figure out through clever negotiation. Also, a particular side may unwittingly give their counterpart just what they needed if the sales pitch is done right. The opportunities for diplomacy lie at the heart of not seeing the other player's cards.
 

Jim H. Moreno

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Ivan, are you to roleplay a certain historical figure, according to their traits, or rely on your own mental skills?
 
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