Problem with Dawn / Dusk Weather lines on the PDT

[DEB]

Whilst playing scenario 6H of the Austerlitz game, I got to 6.00PM ( night ) on 10th October ( last but one day on the provided weather lines ), turn 393 in the game ( out of 400 ); and the visability went from 30 hexs to 1 hex ! Therefore the "descending" Dusk never occurred !! The weather currently reads Clear/Damp, and is clearly still at 4.00PM / 5.00PM ( both of which are set at a 25% chance ).

NB : Each of the previous 4 days opperated correctly ( passed all the "die rolls" by 5.00PM ).

Therefore, the 100% chance of the weather change at 5.10PM is not always occurring ( as it should ), as the Program "appeared" to be "blocked" by an unactioned 25% weather line ( on 10/10 ), rather than actioning the 100% weather line when it "arrived".

Lots of scenario's in Austerlitz and the other Napoleonic games have 100% weather lines throughout and therefore work OK, but some do not and will cause this problem from time to time ( no pun intended ).

Is an "engine" correction possible re this ?

[ Copy sent to Rich H. at HPS. ]

 

[Sgt_Rock]

First, there is no file called 06H in the game. Second there is a 06A HTH for Head to Head play or 06A Solo that is for Solo play. Both of these scenarios and the PDT File associated with them (Ulm.pdt) use October 15 1805 as the date. The ver. of my PDT file I have on my system is 13. Thus that is the latest version. Austerlitz 1.02. Are you using that version?

Not sure where you got an 06H scenario file from. If it was in the game I sure do not see it. I just did a fresh update of my game on my back up system (which I am having to use). Was this 06H scenario provided by a third party? If so that explains it. We do not do tech support on custom made scenarios.

I looked through the Ulm.pdt file and noted the Dawn and Dusk times on line four:

7 0 18 0 0 1

That 1 at the end means that the weather lines will control the visibility. I then looked over the values for visibility and sure enough at the dusk times the visibility diminishes. I then tried out a sample scenario which I built which uses the ULM.pdt file and changed the start time to be 1730 and played through the scenario until the 1800 turn (Night). The visibility worked fine on my end.

Me thinks that you are dealing with someone's custom scenario and not one that we put together. This situation is not historical anyway. It is a what-if battle.

 

[DEB]

First, there is no file called 06H in the game.

I just looked it up and there is... ( in mine ).

Second there is a 06A HTH for Head to Head play or 06A Solo that is for Solo play.

Games = 06A - Solo and 06H HTH.... ( in mine ).

Both of these scenarios and the PDT File associated with them (Ulm.pdt) use October 15 1805 as the date. The ver. of my PDT file I have on my system is 13. thus that is the latest version. Austerlitz 1.02. Are you using that version?

I'm on 1.01a. Per the scenario ( #06H. Historical Ulm Campaign - HTH ) = Ulm.oob and Ulm_Campaign.pdt ( version 12 )....
I guess that means you may have updated it / them... !!

Not sure where you got an 06H scenario file from. If it was in the game I sure do not see it. I just did a fresh update of my game on my back up system (which I am having to use). Was this 06H scenario provided by a third party? If so that explains it. We do not do tech support on custom made scenarios.

See above. It's one of your ( old ) scenarios .... So tech support suggusted...

I looked through the Ulm.pdt file and noted the Dawn and Dusk times on line four:

Wrong PDT ( see above ).

7 0 18 0 0 1

That 1 at the end means that the weather lines will control the visibility.

Figured that ( not rocket science ).

I then looked over the values for visibility and sure enough at the dusk times the visibility diminishes. I then tried out a sample scenario which I built which uses the ULM.pdt file and changed the start time to be 1730 and played through the scenario until the 1800 turn (Night). The visibility worked fine on my end.

So the game engine passed all of the %'s set by the time the Dusks arrived. Quite possible. Just not guarenteed unless set at 100%....
Anywaythe Ulm.PDT has very high %'s too unlike the Ulm_Campaign.pdt which this ( 06H ) Scenario uses....
Further, the problem started at ( or before ) 4.00PM, so running your test from 5.30 PM is too late ....

See PDT lines :-

1 1805 10 10 12 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 13 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 14 0 25 30 100 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain
1 1805 10 10 15 0 50 30 100 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain
1 1805 10 10 16 0 25 30 100 90 100 0 0 Clear/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 0 25 30 100 90 100 0 0 Clear/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 10 100 18 125 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 20 100 12 125 70 75 -10 0 Dusk/Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 30 100 8 125 70 75 -10 0 Dusk/Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 40 100 4 125 90 100 -10 0 Dusk/Overcast/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 50 100 2 125 90 100 -10 0 Dusk/Overcast/Damp
1 1805 10 10 18 0 100 1 125 90 100 -10 0 Light Fog/Damp

It's those 25% lines at 16 0 and 17 0 that are the problem...

Me thinks that you are dealing with someone's custom scenario and not one that we put together.

Wrong ! it came with the game and is one of yours [ = #06H. Historical Ulm Campaign - HTH ] @ 1.01a version.

This situation is not historical anyway. It is a what-if battle.

So - visibilty from 30 hexes to 1 hex in one turn is acceptable if it's a non historical battle ??? I think not....

A revamped scenario may have "bypassed" this "problem" but will not solve it elsewhere...

 

[Sgt_Rock]

Apparently the install on my older system has missing files as I did find the 06H file on my CD.

However, you have to update your game. The latest update probably corrects the problem and the latest update is 1.2. Check out the HPS site and let me know if you still have problems after you are up to the latest ver.

 

[Sgt_Rock]

Here are the PDT lines for the Ulm_Campaign.pdt file:

1 1805 10 10 6 0 100 1 125 90 100 -10 0 Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 0 100 2 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 10 100 3 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 20 100 4 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 30 100 8 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 40 100 12 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 50 100 18 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 8 0 25 30 100 90 100 -10 0 Sleet
1 1805 10 10 9 0 50 30 100 90 100 -10 0 Sleet
1 1805 10 10 10 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 11 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 12 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 13 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 14 0 25 30 100 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain
1 1805 10 10 15 0 50 30 100 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain
1 1805 10 10 16 0 25 30 100 90 100 0 0 Clear/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 0 25 30 100 90 100 0 0 Clear/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 10 100 18 125 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 20 100 12 125 70 75 -10 0 Dusk/Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 30 100 8 125 70 75 -10 0 Dusk/Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 40 100 4 125 90 90 -10 0 Dusk/Overcast/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 50 100 2 125 90 90 -10 0 Dusk/Overcast/Damp
1 1805 10 10 18 0 100 1 125 90 100 -10 0 Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 18 30 100 1 125 90 100 -10 0 Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 19 0 100 1 125 90 50 -50 0 Light Fog/Damp

As you will note in this version there is no way that the visibility could go from 30 to 1 as once you get to the 1710 turn (or 5:10pm) the percentage that the weather line is used is 100 percent. Thus the visibility on 1710 will switch from 30 to 18.

While I have not tested this out I am sure that that is the case. An earlier version of the file might have had an error.

Just make sure before you report an error that you look for the latest update first, install it and then test out your file.

What you might have to do is go back to an earlier file and play the turns again. Sorry for the inconvenience this caused you. I have played through this scenario before and do not recall ever seeing this error come up. Maybe a glitch on your system?

 

[DEB]

Apparently the install on my older system has missing files as I did find the 06H file on my CD.

That's some considerable edit from the email that I had in my inbox today. Perhaps you have been chating with Rich. H. after the email I recently sent him. What, no APOLOGY after all of your erroneous comments ?! Very bad manners...

However, you have to update your game. The latest update probably corrects the problem and the latest update is 1.2. Check out the HPS site and let me know if you still have problems after you are up to the latest ver.

You hope ! I may not be doing this.
I've got my own hopeful "workaround" anyway - just wanted to let you know of a problem and give you the chance to correct it.
Won't be so likely to in the future....

 

[DEB]

Here are the PDT lines for the Ulm_Campaign.pdt file:

1 1805 10 10 6 0 100 1 125 90 100 -10 0 Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 0 100 2 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 10 100 3 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 20 100 4 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 30 100 8 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 40 100 12 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 7 50 100 18 125 90 100 -10 0 Dawn/Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 8 0 25 30 100 90 100 -10 0 Sleet
1 1805 10 10 9 0 50 30 100 90 100 -10 0 Sleet
1 1805 10 10 10 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 11 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 12 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 13 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 14 0 25 30 100 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain
1 1805 10 10 15 0 50 30 100 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain
1 1805 10 10 16 0 25 30 100 90 100 0 0 Clear/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 0 25 30 100 90 100 0 0 Clear/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 10 100 18 125 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 20 100 12 125 70 75 -10 0 Dusk/Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 30 100 8 125 70 75 -10 0 Dusk/Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 40 100 4 125 90 90 -10 0 Dusk/Overcast/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 50 100 2 125 90 90 -10 0 Dusk/Overcast/Damp
1 1805 10 10 18 0 100 1 125 90 100 -10 0 Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 18 30 100 1 125 90 100 -10 0 Light Fog/Damp
1 1805 10 10 19 0 100 1 125 90 50 -50 0 Light Fog/Damp

As you will note in this version there is no way that the visibility could go from 30 to 1 as once you get to the 1710 turn (or 5:10pm) the percentage that the weather line is used is 100 percent. Thus the visibility on 1710 will switch from 30 to 18.

While I have not tested this out I am sure that that is the case. An earlier version of the file might have had an error.

Just make sure before you report an error that you look for the latest update first, install it and then test out your file.

What you might have to do is go back to an earlier file and play the turns again. Sorry for the inconvenience this caused you. I have played through this scenario before and do not recall ever seeing this error come up. Maybe a glitch on your system?

This looks remarkabley the same as the file I already have in so far as %'s go. That, to me is the purient point. Those 25% at 16 0 and 17 0 are the problem.
I got through the first 5 (?) days fine but on 10/10 the system never kicked in at 17 10 or at 17 20 to 17 50 or even 18 00! Night kicked in because the "Dusk" parameter is set as 18 00 BUT the weather listed was Clear/Damp ( as at 16 0 / 17 0 ) whereas it should have been Light Fog/Damp !!

The engine therefore had failed to "action" anything after 17 0 - presumabley because it had not actioned one of those two 25% lines. The engine needs to know it MUST action a 100% line even if the previous < 100% line was unactioned ! Unless you changed this at the last patch, the problem still exists !!!

Most scenario's have 100% lines or very high %'s so will not present a problem like this....

 

[Sgt_Rock]

I have never had a problem with this before - it works fine on my end. Sorry but it must be something on your PC. Not our fault. End of topic for me. If you are not satisfied just wait for Rich's response. He might have passed it along to John and he found something wrong in the program.

You do need to update your game. The problem may have been fixed in the latest update.

 

[DEB]

I have never had a problem with this before - it works fine on my end. Sorry but it must be something on your PC. Not our fault. End of topic for me.

If you are not satisfied just wait for Rich's response. He might have passed it along to John and he found something wrong in the program.

It strikes me that these two comments contradict each other !

You do need to update your game. The problem may have been fixed in the latest update.

As stated previously, if it was updated, should you not know that ??

I shall test it myself with an adjusted PDT.

 

[DEB]

Ok, I have tested this twice.

First test used adjusted pdt weather lines and appropriate scenario details starting on 10 10 1805 ( problem day/date ) at 13 0. The pdt was topped and tailed ONLY to provide 10 10 1805 weather as follows:-

1 1805 10 10 13 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 14 0 25 30 100 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain
1 1805 10 10 15 0 50 30 100 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain
1 1805 10 10 16 0 25 30 100 90 100 0 0 Clear/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 0 25 30 100 90 100 0 0 Clear/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 10 100 18 125 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 20 100 12 125 70 75 -10 0 Dusk/Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 30 100 8 125 70 75 -10 0 Dusk/Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 40 100 4 125 90 100 -10 0 Dusk/Overcast/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 50 100 2 125 90 100 -10 0 Dusk/Overcast/Damp
1 1805 10 10 18 0 100 1 125 90 100 -10 0 Light Fog/Damp

This test resulted in all results occurring as expected ( only exception was that Light Rain started at 14 10 rather than 14 0 ).

My PC has now worked this correctly five times and incorrectly only once. I have had no problems with any other scenario or HPS Napoleonic game re this.

Second test used the same format, but with the Weather lines adjusted as follows :-

1 1805 10 10 13 0 100 30 100 100 100 0 0 Clear
1 1805 10 10 14 0 5 30 100 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain
1 1805 10 10 15 0 5 30 100 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain
1 1805 10 10 16 0 5 30 100 90 100 0 0 Clear/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 0 5 30 100 90 100 0 0 Clear/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 10 100 18 125 70 75 -10 0 Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 20 100 12 125 70 75 -10 0 Dusk/Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 30 100 8 125 70 75 -10 0 Dusk/Light Rain/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 40 100 4 125 90 100 -10 0 Dusk/Overcast/Damp
1 1805 10 10 17 50 100 2 125 90 100 -10 0 Dusk/Overcast/Damp
1 1805 10 10 18 0 100 1 125 90 100 -10 0 Light Fog/Damp

Note that all weather line percentages other than the 100%'s were adjusted to 5% ( to encourage "actioning" failure ).

This resulted as follows :-

2.00PM to 4.00PM (inc.) Clear (visability 30 hexes ) - Light rain could have started at 2.00PM and Clear/Damp at 4.00PM.
4.10PM to 4.50PM (inc.) Light Rain ( visability 30 hexes ) - Late by 9 turns.
5.00PM ( French turn ) Light Rain ( visability 30 hexes )
5.00PM ( Allies turn ) Clear/Damp ( visability 30 hexes ) - So it checks the weather each PLAYER turn rather than one for the time ( unexpected )
5.10PM to 5.50PM Clear/Damp ( visability 30 hexes ) - A decending Dusk should have occured due to the 100%'s set but did NOT due to unactioned lines prior to this point !
6.00PM Clear/Damp ( visability 1 hex - Night ) - This appears to be "picked up" via Line 4 of the PDT ( "Dusk" time set as 18 0 ), rather than via the Weather table.

Here the 100% lines failed to action where and as set suggesting a programming fault.

Please test on your PC using the above ( second test ) table and advise results.

 

[Sgt_Rock]

If you are still finding problems with these then it needs to be dealt with with Rich and John. The file works fine on my end.

This statement of yours:

"As stated previously, if it was updated, should you not know that ??" ....

Made absolutely no sense to me. How can I tell what version you are using? I am not looking over your shoulder. Just make sure you have the latest version of the game from the HPS website and test using that version.

End of topic for me. This needed to be dealt with purely via Tech Support and not a forum. This is the last time I answer customer questions like this on the forum. I come up to this forum to enjoy discussions - not to discuss issues with the products. If the product doesn't work right use Tech Support - users CAN give accurate responses but it appears that there is something wrong with the Main Program if in fact you are getting different results from your tests. As that goes beyond my realm of expertise I am bowing out ...

 

[DEB]

If you are still finding problems with these then it needs to be dealt with with Rich and John. The file works fine on my end.

Rich H. advises he will be looking at it I.D.C. ; I have asked him to "look in" here for further information ( not previously advised to him ).

This statement of yours:

"As stated previously, if it was updated, should you not know that ??" ...

Made absolutely no sense to me. How can I tell what version you are using? I am not looking over your shoulder. Just make sure you have the latest version of the game from the HPS website and test using that version.

I have told you already which version I am using - the one ( 1.01a ) immediately before the last patch ( 1.02 )! Surely you have the ability to recall the amendmends you made at the last patch or a note of the same to assist your memory ?? If you cannot recall an amendment such as the one I have suggusted is required, then that amendment is very unlikely to have been made, and patching my game up to date would achieve me nothing at all. Your comment is just a lazy cop out.

End of topic for me. This needed to be dealt with purely via Tech Support and not a forum

.

Fair enough, if you can't follow the problem.

This is the last time I answer customer questions like this on the forum. I come up to this forum to enjoy discussions - not to discuss issues with the products.

So much for product "support" / love of "ones own baby" !! And I am aware ( per Rich H. ) that product support has "officially" ceased. As for "answer", you have commented ( rather a lot ) , but "answer" it you have not. You attempted ( weakly ) and failed ( badly ) !

If the product doesn't work right use Tech Support - users CAN give accurate responses but it appears that there is something wrong with the Main Program if in fact you are getting different results from your tests. As that goes beyond my realm of expertise I am bowing out ...

At last, a sensible comment ( and an acknowledgement of sorts ). By the way, the test results varied as different factors were involved in each test.
Factors that proved my point.

NB : This problem may well be beyond your realm of expertise, but surely the logic being used here is not beyond your intelligence to comprehend and pass comment on ??