Precision Dice

Gamer72

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The VASL dice bot has been tested several times and it is 'fine' by the chi-something test. I believe you can get a very detailed report on that on the vasl.info website:

Looky here:


And see the analysis of the VASL dice-bot here.

Besides, as aforementioned, I have 'tested' it by habitually entering the VASL log-files into the - alas now defunct - 'VASL Analyzer' of the ASL Scenario Archive website for years accumulating more than 100,000 DRs over the years. By that method, too, the VASL dice bot was fine with statistical outcomes being within the frame of what can be expected.

von Marwitz
So it’s just me it hates then ... 🙄
 

zgrose

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Just worth a note that there are two dicebots. One pulling data from random.org and one using internal Java classes. You can choose which one you get via the Preferences. VASL will fallback to Java randomness if it can't reach random.org in a timely manner but it is worth noting that you probably want to enable random.org if want an extra layer of entropy in your dice.
 

PresterJohn

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At the mention of entropy I am wondering how much all of this dice rolling is hastening the heat death of the universe.
 

Vic Provost

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So it’s just me it hates then ... 🙄
No, it hates all of us, LOL! Just when I want to put a sledgehammer through my computer after rolling 11, 10, 11, 12, 10, then another 11, the next 6 were 3, 5, 7, 4, 2, 9 so what can you do, sometimes the results are very random, sometimes they stay in a range for a few rolls, it all comes down to when you do those rolls, getting low rolls is usually, but not always, the way you want to roll. The dice are the dice, it is what it is...
 
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SSlunt

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You should not be rolling the dice together to check for balance. It is the DIE itself that is important. How it rolls without the risk of being influenced by another die is the true test. Let us see the 1000 single rolls and determine balance from there
 

DVexile

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You should not be rolling the dice together to check for balance. It is the DIE itself that is important. How it rolls without the risk of being influenced by another die is the true test. Let us see the 1000 single rolls and determine balance from there
Yep. When you add two independent random variables the output distribution is the convolution of the individual distributions. In semi-English that means one die's distribution will average/smear/blur out the other die's distribution. (To be clear this isn't anything to do with the physical dice hitting each other or anything, this is just the fundamental mathematics of how random variables add and is true even if you roll the dice separately from each other and then add their values). If all we care about is the sum of the two dice that's not a big deal, but in ASL where we do things like ROF, cowering and so forth we should care about each die's distribution separately.

As an example of this, a pair of MMP dice I just tested to 1000 rolls had the following CHITEST results:

Red - 76%
White - 1%
Sum - 92%

The numbers here mean the probability that the measured values came from the expected ("fair") distribution. So the Red die is very likely "fair", while the White die is almost certainly not fair (to a 99% confidence in this case) and turns up 2 and 5 more frequently than it should. The White die in this case is also measurably misshapen with a much shorter physical dimension from the 2 face to the 5 face (0.465") compared to the other two pairs of faces (0.475" and 0.476") making it more likely to tip over onto the wider 2 and 5 faces. So physical measurements imply the measured "unfair" distribution. Note also that since a six sided die always has opposite sides sum to 7 that this kind of "unfairness" or "imbalance" doesn't actually affect the average of all the rolls which still ends up very close to 3.5 as expected.

The result "Sum" is treating the dice together, that is adding the Red and White values together for each roll (they were rolled together in testing) like one would for using the IFT. The "Sum" distribution is actually quite "fair" despite the fact that one if its components (the White die) is pretty distinctly "not fair". In fact the sum is even more likely to be "fair" than either of its constituents.

So anyway, keep track of each die separately when testing as it makes a very significant difference in detecting any imbalance. And the related take away is that if there is an unbalanced die around it is actually not very likely to make a difference for IFT, TH, TK, TC, MC rolls since summing two dice smooths out imbalance. The impact is going to be more significant for things like ROF, smoke grenades and such that are based on a single die.
 
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kcole4001

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Until they turn on you like the Plasticine Cuboids Of Evil they are!
Mine never turned on me...they were evil from the moment I opened the box.
What if I never opened the box?
Would it be a situation of "Schrodinger's dice"?
Could they be either good or bad and both at the same time? :unsure:

I never thought to measure them to see if they were lopsided.
Red was very bad, blue was even worse, white was OK. I only used yellow for a third die.
Rate was a Utopian dream, don't bother hauling around those "light" mortars.
Any B11 weapons given in an OB might just as well be discarded at start to save lugging them around.

Precision dice have saved ASL, there is no going back! 🤪
 

pensatl1962

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Okay, so this is probably the third rail of dice discussions, but…
In hockey, if the ice surface sucks, both teams are equally affected. So what is the hangup (that I’ve heard a few times) on having both players use the same dice, whether they are “fair” or not? Personally, I’m not too concerned about dice fairness and I happily use my own and opponents use their own. But to those who find this to be a more important element of the game, why don’t you just use the same dice? Just curious.
 

Tuomo

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Too much of a PITA to be reaching over to grab a shared pair of dice. And I don't worry about the germs; kinda too late for that when you're talking with someone for hours.
 

Robin Reeve

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Okay, so this is probably the third rail of dice discussions, but…
In hockey, if the ice surface sucks, both teams are equally affected. So what is the hangup (that I’ve heard a few times) on having both players use the same dice, whether they are “fair” or not? Personally, I’m not too concerned about dice fairness and I happily use my own and opponents use their own. But to those who find this to be a more important element of the game, why don’t you just use the same dice? Just curious.
Hygiena?
 

DVexile

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Okay, so this is probably the third rail of dice discussions, but…
In hockey, if the ice surface sucks, both teams are equally affected. So what is the hangup (that I’ve heard a few times) on having both players use the same dice, whether they are “fair” or not? Personally, I’m not too concerned about dice fairness and I happily use my own and opponents use their own. But to those who find this to be a more important element of the game, why don’t you just use the same dice? Just curious.
Also it is really nice to leave the IFT roll in place while the other guy does MCs. That way you don't have to remember ROF and such.
 

Robin Reeve

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Well, you’re touching the other common ASL components. We could all start wearing nitrile gloves. Lol.
When players fondle the dice in their hands, they leave sweat and grease on them.
You don't do that with counters.
I don't like that.
You don't seem to mind it: should I "lol" you for that?
It seems that your question wasn't really open.
YMMV, of course.
But playing me, I prefer not share my dice.
 
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