Point Blank Fire

KevinG

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Situation: My opponant moves an AFV adjacent to my stopped AFV and stops. I fire against the stop MP and believe I can claim the -2 pbf TH DRM since the vehicle is now stopped. My opponant claims that becuase the target is still considered moving I cannot apply the mod. I claim that the fact that it is a moving target has nothing to do with the application of the mod or not, only whether it is motion (which it cannot be in its own MPh) or stopped/non-stopped.

What say you all ?
 

Patton1138

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Having expended a Stop MP since the beginning of the turn, it is Non-Moving, so you do get the mod for PBFire.
 

KevinG

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By C.8 it is still a moving target, since it entered a new hex, but I contend that it;s moving/non-moving status has nothing to do with the application of the pbf mod in DFF, just whether it is stopped/non-stopped.
 

kschindl

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KevinG said:
Situation: My opponant moves an AFV adjacent to my stopped AFV and stops. I fire against the stop MP and believe I can claim the -2 pbf TH DRM since the vehicle is now stopped. My opponant claims that becuase the target is still considered moving I cannot apply the mod. I claim that the fact that it is a moving target has nothing to do with the application of the mod or not, only whether it is motion (which it cannot be in its own MPh) or stopped/non-stopped.

What say you all ?
as far as i know (no handbook here) the -2 pbf for to hit always applies, regardless of moving status.
 

WesN

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as far as i know (no handbook here) the -2 pbf for to hit always applies, regardless of moving status.
If the target is in MOTION then not the -2 does not apply, but if the target was MOVING and then stopped, then yes you get the -2. I think some people are confused about MOTION status and the act of MOVING.

Wes
 

MKeen

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Has this dicsussion last night

PB will not apply to a target that is either in motion or nonstopped
Motion and moving are not the same. You are in motion if you have a motion counter on your unit, otherwise you are not in motion. Then all thats left is stopped/nonstopped. Since he expended a MP to stop he was stopped and therefore PB does apply.

Note: this goes for both the attacker and defenders status.

MKeen
 

Brien Martin

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I think the key for understanding the AFV combat mods is ... "what is the status of the target *at the moment* the shot is taken?" IOW, in Kevin's example, the target had stopped. At the moment of the shot, the -1/-2 for PBF applies.

Some people will then argue that some of the Case C mods should not then apply because, at the moment, the tank isn't moving at all. Case C, however, deals with whether or not a tank has moved at all during the turn.

I still think that there's a better way to present the mods than as presently done. To me, there are three types:

1) Has the tank done anything during this turn?
2) What is the status of the tank/target at the moment of the shot?
3) Are there any terrain/environment modifiers that apply?

Maybe that's over-simplifying ... but I think that most people learn better when they have a checklist of questions to answer that lead them to a final answer ... a mental flowchart, if you will.
 
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