POA2: Update: Alternate map symbol project

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Don Maddox said:
Snip
Let me know what you think.

I should also mention that this is the time for suggestions. I am fooling around with changing the way some of the fields look. Some of them just seem to be a little too "harsh" for my tastes.
Don't know how to say it other than the are nice, damn nice, to look at. Can't wait to play with them. Started working with basic ADC2 map making. Do we know if the basic tutorial on map making will go up. Not the symbol creation but how to use ADC2 to make maps with the symbols that your are so nicely producing for us. I am graphically challenged!

John
 

Dr Zaius

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Thanks for the comments guys.

This project is going to take a little longer to complete than I originally planned. Why? Because I'm a perfectionist and I'm not satisfied with simply tweaking the elevations. I've been adjusting some other things as I goes as well and it takes some time due to the large volume of symbols involved. I think the wait will be worth it.
 
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Don Maddox said:
Thanks for the comments guys.

This project is going to take a little longer to complete than I originally planned. Why? Because I'm a perfectionist and I'm not satisfied with simply tweaking the elevations. I've been adjusting some other things as I goes as well and it takes some time due to the large volume of symbols involved. I think the wait will be worth it.
We have to wait for the game to be finished any way, we can all wait. :surprise:
 

MKSheppard

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Any updates for us Don? This sounds like the perfect thing to go with the
newly released 2.01
 

Dr Zaius

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I'm not ignoring you guys so be patient. Several people have e-mailed me and asked to use the beta version. I can't do that right now. The reason is that the symbols are tied to the TEC and ECX files. Every time I move a symbol up or down on the list, or add/delete a symbol, it changes the files. If you tried to use a map that I created yesterday with the symbol set (as it was then), you would see a bunch of garbage on the screen because I have changed the order of the symbols.

Until I have the symbols in their final order with the exact names they will have, I won't be able to release them. Any maps made with a "beta" version would be useless so it's best if I don't release anything until it's done.

The good news is that I'm about 90% complete at this point. I rand into two major difficulties. First, doing the fields proved to be a major challenge. Second, the terraces and rice paddies were very hard to do. All of these are now done, except for the terraces. I'm still working that issue. I also experimenting with ways that I can integrate the desert and regular symbol set so that I only need to release a single set. saves everyone an extra download as well!

I plan on having the terraces done today (I hope), then I have quite a bit of tweaking to do on the zoom 1 and 2 sets. After that, I need to do the desert stuff (which shouldn't take too long). Then I'm finished. I'll try to post a screenshot soon. The reason i have not done so is because I have made some pretty radical changes in the last few weeks and I didn't want people to see the set, then see it again with totally different colors. The colors are mostly finished at this point.
 
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Hi Don,<p>You are probably aware that symbol sets from other modules can be imported. That applies to both terrain and units. Terrain is a little picky because it has to be of the same size and hex orientation, but symbols can be of any size. You might want to browse the available sets at <a href="http://209.216.35.195./Game_Sets/Terrain%20and%20Map%20Samples/terrain_symbol_sets.htm">HPS's module library terrain sets</a>. You can also use scans, which really means pictures. So, any paint or picture program can also be used to make electronic maps of quality.
 

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Here's a sneak peak at a nice, swampy pond surrounded by trees. This image is a little rough. I just threw it together to show you what the new swamp and water terrain looks like.
 

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Don,

The latest sample looks great. Keep them coming :D

I do have what is probably a silly question (but that's never stopped me before)... Once your symbol set is complete, will users be able to modify the standard scenarios to the use your new set or would that require the purchase of ADC2?

The more I play the game the less I like working with the topographical maps. I consistently feel that I spend more time fighting the map to glean information than I do fighting the enemy for territory.:nuts:

Thanks
Mike
 

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No one needs to buy ADC2 to use maps made with my symbols with POA2. ADC2 is simply being used as a map editor. I am using it as a symbol editor as well, but no one else will need to do that once the set is complete. If you want to make maps for POA2, you will need to use ADC2 to do so, however, you would need to do that even if you were using the default symbol set as POA2 has no map editor of its own.

Here is how all of this works. POA2 has a directory called Symbol Sets. Inside this directory are separate folders which contain symbol sets for summer, winter, box-type symbols sets, etc. The ECX file that goes with each scenario tells POA2 which symbol set to use and which TEC file to use. POA2 can have multiple TEC files (terrain effects chart), and the scenario tells the program which one to use. A new TEC file will accompany my symbol set when it is released. The reason for that is because I renamed a few of the symbols to make things easier to find, added a few new symbols, and changed the order in which the symbols appear. The default TEC will not work with the new symbol set. My TEC will be identical to the old one, it will simply have some different names in it. This will be transparent to the end user.

When I am done with this it will be pretty simple for everyone to set up. Players will need to download a few files: a TEC file, revised symbol set files. That's it. The current TEC is called standard.TEC. I will name the new one alternate.TEC or something like that and it simply goes right into the same folder (very small download). The new symbol files will go into a new folder inside the symbol set directory (large download). That's all there is to it.

The ECX files that accompanies each map tells POA2 whether it should use the default symbol set or the revised one. It also tells the program which TEC to use. Map authors simply choose which symbol set they want to use when they first start a map, and ADC2 will do the rest.

Because I have made significant changes to the order of the symbols, I don't think there is any way to get the original maps to work with the revised set. The new symbols will become the standard for non-topographic maps made after the new set is released and will be officially hosted by HPS. I seriously doubt that anyone will attempt to make any other symbol sets. There are over 3,000 symbols in the default set so you can imagine how much work it has been for me to alter all these.

Using ADC2 to make really complex maps with a lot of different elevations takes some work, but it's really not that difficult once you understand what to do. It's just time consuming if you want to add all sorts of little details that make the maps look better. That's the key word: look. The vast majority of symbols in POA2 are merely cosmetic. They're little cuts and fills to make the roads and fields looks just so. You don't need to use all those if you don't want to. Map authors can stick to a very limited number of base symbols, which will yield a map with about the same level of detail as the average Panzer Campaigns map.
 

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The symbol set should be released sometime this week. I hope a few map and scenario authors will put it to work. :D
 

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The updated symbol set is being reviewed at HPS. There was a small problem setting up the revised symbol TEC that goes with it, but as soon as that is sorted out it shouldn't be long. Stay tuned folks!
 

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The TEC issue seems to be resolved now and I sent all the updated files to Scott for additional review. Barring any flaws he may discover (I don't want to release it unless we know for sure everything is solid), I am hopeful the set will be available for download either today or tomorrow.

I have been putting the map editor through the wringer and so far everything seems to be working okay as far as I can tell. I believe this set is a big step forward, but there are still a few drawbacks. If you plan to make really "busy" maps on hilly terrain, the set will certainly do that, however, it's a time consuming process. On the other hand, you can create some really fantastic looking maps if you pay attention to detail and have the patience to see it through.

I have been messing around with a small "demo" map just to show you guys what the desert terrain looks like. Bear in mind, maps can look considerably better than this, I just threw this together in order to give you some ideas. The map is not historical, but is generally representative of the terrain to the SE of Nasiriyah (Iraq).

The download won't be as painful as I originally feared. The set zipped up rather nicely, so it weighs in at about 6MB. Not too bad.
 

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Don you have a lot of talent. This is really amazing.
-Tiberius
 

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Don, that map is awesome! Did you use ADC2 to make it? I am expecting my copy to arrive by Monday (am hoping today so I can play with it this weekend). Until POA-2 comes back in stock I guess I will just have to "fantasize" about what it might be like to play it for now. In the meantime I plan to spend much of my free time learning ADC2.
 

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Ok you've convinced me tiles do look better than the topo maps, Great work Don


Gary
 

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If you want to thank me for creating this, then the best way to do it is by creating some great maps and scenarios which make use of it. That's what is really going to energize the POA2 community. The more "activity" that people see going on with the system, the more interested they will become. As more players pick up the game the community should start to really come to life.

Scott has reviewed the set and everything seems fine. He did make a coupd of suggestions about my map building style and I will incorporate those into future versions. The plan (I think) is that HPS will host the revised symbols along with the other POA2 updates. We will host scenarios and maps in our usual scenario/map archive right here on Warfare HQ. That way map and scenario authors can just upload their own work and share it with everyone.

I don't think the desert sysmbols look quite as good as the "regular" sysmbols do, however, I don't think they look bad. I think people might be surprised at just how detailed you can get with the maps if you really want to. The maps creation process does seem a little confusing at first, but it really isn't that hard once you understand what's happening.

At one time I believe I remember some of you mentioning that you would like to see some "generic" maps that scenario authors could use. What specifically did you have in mind?
 
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