Platoon Movement and (failed) VBM

atomic

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Hi!

Question regarding platoon movement and bypass: in an impulse, the lead tank in a platoon attempts a VBM move and the tank following it enters the hex that the lead tank previously was in. It now turns out that the clearance was not enough for a VBM so the lead tank never enters the VBM hex, spends the 2 MP in the hex previously occupied and has to stop for yet another MP. What happens with the second tank? Is it in the hex it originally was in prior to this impulse or was its move successful and hence we have two tanks in the same hex?

/asad
 

Doug Leslie

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D2.3...The hexside clearance measurement cannot be made until the VBM and all applicable MP costs are announced (and thus expended in the previously occupied hex/hexside) if the move is subsequently not allowed)...

I would interpret this to mean that the clearance measurement can only take place after the impulse is completed ("all applicable MP costs" would include the MP cost of other vehicles in the platoon). Therefore, when the lead vehicle fails to clear the obstacle that it wants to bypass, it is returned to the hex it attempted to exit and will be in the same hex as the vehicle that followed it. This is consistent with defensive first fire taking place after all vehicles have completed the impulse: the movement of each vehicle is considered to be taking place simultaneously.
 

atomic

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D2.3...The hexside clearance measurement cannot be made until the VBM and all applicable MP costs are announced (and thus expended in the previously occupied hex/hexside) if the move is subsequently not allowed)...

I would interpret this to mean that the clearance measurement can only take place after the impulse is completed ("all applicable MP costs" would include the MP cost of other vehicles in the platoon). Therefore, when the lead vehicle fails to clear the obstacle that it wants to bypass, it is returned to the hex it attempted to exit and will be in the same hex as the vehicle that followed it. This is consistent with defensive first fire taking place after all vehicles have completed the impulse: the movement of each vehicle is considered to be taking place simultaneously.
I would tend to agree with you as that would seem a natural way of doing it. However, it's not uncommon that ASL goes the unnatural way. Here, D14.31 says: "... Units using Impulse Movement do not need to predesignate their actions, as in normal stacked movement (A4.2). ..."

I don't know what this means except possibly that the trailing tank could await a VBM validity check before moving ahead but would in this case have to stop once the first vehicle stops to make sure they both share the same Stopped/Non-Stopped/Motion status.
 

Doug Leslie

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I would tend to agree with you as that would seem a natural way of doing it. However, it's not uncommon that ASL goes the unnatural way. Here, D14.31 says: "... Units using Impulse Movement do not need to predesignate their actions, as in normal stacked movement (A4.2). ..."

I don't know what this means except possibly that the trailing tank could await a VBM validity check before moving ahead but would in this case have to stop once the first vehicle stops to make sure they both share the same Stopped/Non-Stopped/Motion status.
If we start by looking at the relevant part of A4.2:

"Units moving as a stack expend MF simultaneously and need not spend MF for the same purpose, but must designate at the same time all actions for the same MF".

So, if there is stack comprising two squads and a leader, the attacker might want to roll for smoke grenades and ideally would like to place them in two ADJACENT hexes. What I interpret A.2 to mean is that the stack cannot roll for one smoke grenade and await the outcome before deciding which hex the second squad should attempt to place smoke in. Both squads need to designate the hex that they are aiming for before either of them makes the smoke availability dr.

In the case of vehicles using platoon movement, this is not necessary. The first vehicle could try to fire a smoke discharger at a cost of one MP. The other vehicles in the platoon don't have to have their action pre-designated before the outcome of the DR is known. If one vehicle in a platoon uses bounding first fire, the other vehicles can wait to see the outcome before expending MP. They don’t have to declare in advance what they are going to do.
I think that movement has to be treated differently though, notwithstanding D14.31. If one vehicle’s movement creates a gap with the rest of the platoon, the gap must immediately be closed as part of the same impulse. The other vehicles don’t have the option of designating anything else. I agree that it isn’t entirely clear but that is how I would play it.
 

EagleIV

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If we start by looking at the relevant part of A4.2:

"Units moving as a stack expend MF simultaneously and need not spend MF for the same purpose, but must designate at the same time all actions for the same MF".

So, if there is stack comprising two squads and a leader, the attacker might want to roll for smoke grenades and ideally would like to place them in two ADJACENT hexes. What I interpret A.2 to mean is that the stack cannot roll for one smoke grenade and await the outcome before deciding which hex the second squad should attempt to place smoke in. Both squads need to designate the hex that they are aiming for before either of them makes the smoke availability dr.
Actually you can roll one squad's placement attempt and see it before deciding if you want to roll for the second squad, but if you decide to have the second squad place smoke in this case you must pay the MF cost a second time. If you want to pay the smoke grenade placement MF cost just once you must designate both squad's placement attempts (or lack there of) before rolling any of them.
 

Doug Leslie

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Actually you can roll one squad's placement attempt and see it before deciding if you want to roll for the second squad, but if you decide to have the second squad place smoke in this case you must pay the MF cost a second time. If you want to pay the smoke grenade placement MF cost just once you must designate both squad's placement attempts (or lack there of) before rolling any of them.
Yes, that's what I meant.
 

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Actually you can roll one squad's placement attempt and see it before deciding if you want to roll for the second squad, but if you decide to have the second squad place smoke in this case you must pay the MF cost a second time. If you want to pay the smoke grenade placement MF cost just once you must designate both squad's placement attempts (or lack there of) before rolling any of them.
Expensive -- assuming not own hex, that 4 MF for serial smoke attempts. Needs a really good reason to stay stacked.
 

Doug Leslie

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Do the Column rules offer a clue to the answer here?

E11.522 DETECTION: When a Column unit enters a Location where Detection (A12.15) will occur, the DEFENDER does not reveal his unit until that Column has completed its Impulse. When he does reveal it, only the ATTACKER unit in the DEFENDER'S Location—not the rest of the Column—is forced to return to its previously-exited hex, where Overstacking might then apply.

Seems to be same principle: all members of the impulse complete their movement before it is determined that one element is unsuccessful in entering its destination hex.
 
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