Pillbox/Bamboo: Adv vs Difficult Terrain?

[Randy Strader]

A bamboo hex contains a pillbox. May an ADJACENT Unit, in Advance Phase, use Advance vs Difficult Terrain to advance into the pillbox in the bamboo, or just the bamboo only?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jrv]

It may only enter the bamboo. The pillbox is a separate location, and the unit must move into the bamboo before entering the pillbox. Typically if you have a pillbox in bamboo you would not move into it as the defender (or you might move in by tunnel), and as the attacker you would spend several turns getting in to control it if that's what you needed to do.

JR

 

[Randy Strader]

Hi JR, thanks. That confirms our assumption. But, what gave me pause was the difference between MPh and APh. In MPh, the unit would Minimum Move in and, because they would become Pinned, couldn't also enter the Pillbox. But, with Adv vs Difficult Terrain we weren't sure that one couldn't claim the extra MF to move into the pillbox as one would, e.g., a Trench. But, the reasoning about it being a separate Location clarifies it.

 

[jrv]

Hi JR, thanks. That confirms our assumption. But, what gave me pause was the difference between MPh and APh. In MPh, the unit would Minimum Move in and, because they would become Pinned, couldn't also enter the Pillbox. But, with Adv vs Difficult Terrain we weren't sure that one couldn't claim the extra MF to move into the pillbox as one would, e.g., a Trench. But, the reasoning about it being a separate Location clarifies it.

A4.7 "A unit may not change both its Location within a hex and also the hex it is in during the same APh." A unit can Advance into a pillbox, or it can Advance into the hex outside the pillbox, but it can't do both in the same APh. If entrenchments were allowed in bamboo, a unit could Advance into the entrenchments in the bamboo because it would not be changing Location within the hex also.

JR

 

[Eagle4ty]

If it helps, think of a PB kind of like an additional level of a building within the hex. You can't advance into the ground level of a building and simultaneously advance to the 1st level (another location) within the hex with the same unit.

 

[Randy Strader]

Thanks! In the interim, I've found the article in the new Special Ops is especially instructive in this regard. I think, however, part of our confusion was that we were doing the lookup on the fly during the scenario. Seems clear now that we should've remembered the A4.7 verbiage as mentioned by JR above.

 

[WuWei]

Related question: What about a Minimum Move? In contrast to Advance vs Difficult Terrain, Minimum Move allows the movement of 1 hex (not location). So can I minimum move from an ADJACENT hex into the bamboo hex and into the pillbox?

 

[Doug Leslie]

Related question: What about a Minimum Move? In contrast to Advance vs Difficult Terrain, Minimum Move allows the movement of 1 hex (not location). So can I minimum move from an ADJACENT hex into the bamboo hex and into the pillbox?

Not according to this Q&A:

A4.134
If a unit wants to make a Minimum Move, can it make MF expenditures other than the move from one hex to the other hex?
A. No.

 

[WuWei]

Since Minimum Move is a move of one hex, I can't use it to move a squad+HMG (5 PP) up to a 2.5 level factory rooftop (3 MF). Correct?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

A Factory only has "quasi"-levels between ground and the roof...so I making such a MM should be ok.

"to a different ADJACENT building level Location of the same hex)"
The ground and rooftop in a Factory are ADJACENT.

B23.87:
"The ground and Rooftop levels of a Factory Rooftop Access Point hex are ADJACENT; intermediate vertical levels do not exist [EXC: for MF-expenditure, LOF and Residual-FP purposes; see 23.88]."

 

[WuWei]

My uncertainty comes from the fact that Minimum Move only allows the movement of "one hex". If I go from ground level to a factory rooftop, I don't move one hex, I just change location within the hex.
A4.134: "An Infantry unit retaining at least one MF after deducting for portage costs exceeding its IPC, may make a Minimum Move of one hex during its MPh, [...]"

 

[ScottRomanowski]

I think this Q&A says no.

A4.134 If a unit wants to make a Minimum Move, can it make MF expenditures other than the move from one hex to the other hex?
A. No.
May it change Location within the hex, e.g., leave a pillbox or move to another level/location in a building before moving to the other hex? May it recover SW before moving to the other hex? If it may, would it be considered CX when recovering if not CX at the start of the Minimum Move? If CX at the start of the Minimum Move? May it place SMOKE grenades before moving to the other hex? If it may, would it be considered CX when placing if not CX at the start of the Minimum Move? If CX at the start of the Minimum Move? May it place a DC before moving to the other hex? If it may, would it be considered CX when placing if not CX at the start of the Minimum Move? If CX at the start of the Minimum Move? May it exit an entrenchment before moving to the other hex? If a unit may perform “secondary” MF expenditures before making expenditure to move from one hex to the other, must that unit retain at least one MF after making the secondary expenditures to perform the Minimum Move?
A. No to all. [Klas 33]