PF checks

[almogaver266]

Hi all, a question about PFs

A German 5-4-8 squad, that is not marked with First Fire, fires at a T-34/85 two hexes away; The AFV have expend 1 MP to enter in the hex where is fired on, the squad makes a PF check and rolls a final dr of 4: has a PF but may not fire it, and this is the doubt:

May the squad try a second PF check (as he uses two SW) o must wait for a subsequent MP expenditure of the AFV in order to be able to fire another time on it?

 

[UXB]

2 Usages

It must wai for another MP expenditure.

 

[Jazz]

Re: 2 Usages

It must wai for another MP expenditure.

Actually, this is not so clear....the rationale being that the 2nd PF is not the same SW (albeit nither of them is represented by a counter) and could be fired by the squad as such on the same MP as the first PF. If the squad had 2 Psk or 2 mortars instead of PF, it would be able to fire both SW on the same MP expenditure. The only difference between the PsK and PF is the presence of the counter.

At least thats how I've always seen it played (and a number of differnt venues including ASLOK) and played it myself. Not sure if there is a specific rules reference or erratta....Sam?

Jazz

 

[almogaver266]

Ok Jazz, as I understand your reply, is only a question of counters and the squad may fire on the AFV......bad news for the T-34 guys

 

[Jazz]

Ok Jazz, as I understand your reply, is only a question of counters and the squad may fire on the AFV......bad news for the T-34 guys

I guess you could look at it that way........

If the squad had two Psk or 2 mortars instead of looking for 2 PF, it would not need to wait for another MP. The PF are merely SW that are not represented in counter form.

As I said, thats the way I've always seen it played as long as I can remember. I seem to recall a very lively exchange on messages on the ASLML when this interpretation saw the light of day....I don't recall if it was made official by a Q&A or if it was just intuitively obvious to the casual observer once you had seen the line of reasoning......It might be worth a check of Sam's PerrySez archive.

Jazz

 

[Phil Palmer]

>A German 5-4-8 squad, that is not marked with First Fire, fires at a T->34/85 two hexes away; The AFV have expend 1 MP to enter in the hex >where is fired on, the squad makes a PF check and rolls a final dr of 4: >has a PF but may not fire it, and this is the doubt:
>
>May the squad try a second PF check (as he uses two SW) o must wait >for a subsequent MP expenditure of the AFV in order to be able to fire >another time on it?

Certainly the squad may make a 2nd PF check as firing it's 2nd SW.
However, by doing so (firing 2 SWs), the squad loses it's inherent firepower until CCPh (sorry, but no ASLRB handy to quote chapter and
verse). The 2nd PF check could be done on the same MP as the first
since it is a "different" weapon firing.

 

[Phil Palmer]

>However, by doing so (firing 2 SWs), the squad loses it's inherent >firepower until CCPh (sorry, but no ASLRB handy to quote chapter and
>verse

I finally had time to look up the rule--so here it is:
A7.351 . . . "A squad using two SW loses its inherent FP until the CCPh."

 

[Jazz]

>However, by doing so (firing 2 SWs), the squad loses it's inherent >firepower until CCPh (sorry, but no ASLRB handy to quote chapter and
>verse

I finally had time to look up the rule--so here it is:
A7.351 . . . "A squad using two SW loses its inherent FP until the CCPh."

What about Subsequent First Fire? NRBH but I think they could still do that.

 

[paul]

I always find this section (A7.351 -A7.353) one of those sections I have
to re-read on a regular basis.

As Jazz points out

A7.353 "in both of the above cases Subsequent, FPF and Final Fire vs.
adjacent units retain halved inherent FP for those attacks".

The ASLQACE has a couple of reference that really help clear up
the section.

Basically once a squad has used two SW, it loses its FULL FP shot
once a HS/Crew uses a SW, it loses it FULL FP shot

I think many folks forget that a HS can fire a MG and still
subsequent fire using either 1/2 Inherit or MG (Intensive) (Barring
rules regarding range and FPF)

-Paul