Pegasus Bridge : LOS problems

[GVL]

Pegasus Bridge : LOS problems in rule book (slopes)

In the rules chapter of Pegasus Bridge ( chapter Q) , there is an exemple on page Q5.
It says "... Squad C has a LOS to squads A,B,D and ..."

Question :
Is LOS from C to D not blocked by the Crest line?
See rule B 10.2 Different level LOS.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Doesn't the F16/G17 hexside (crest & slope) confer squad C an "upslope" status that allows it to see past the H16/I17 crestline?

 

[Reepicheep]

Unit C is upslope to unit D on account of the F16/G17 slope. So it's treated as being at 3/4 of a level higher than otherwise and hence "can trace a LOS... to a lower elevation (ie. across a hill Crest line)" (Q3.3)

 

[BoxCars]

Doesn't the F16/G17 hexside (crest & slope) confer squad C an "upslope" status that allows it to see past the H16/I17 crestline?

So as I continue to try and understand the Slopes rules. The 467 being on an up-slope, in relation to the 648, is at a +1 3/4 level while the 640 is at level 0. There by being on a higher level and being < 5 hexes away, which does not create a blind hex due to B10.23.

Is that the reasoning, or is it something else?

 

[Reepicheep]

I'm no expert on slopes, or LOS in general (must sit down and master all the intricacies one day!), but the reasoning you've given is the reasoning I would be following.

 

[GVL]

What if we have a squad in hex I16?
Is it on level 3/4 , on level 1 or on level 1 3/4?

 

[BoxCars]

What if we have a squad in hex I16?
Is it on level 3/4 , on level 1 or on level 1 3/4?

Based on my previous reasoning it would be on +1 3/4 in relation to the 648. And and in relation to the 467, unit in I16 and the 467 would both be at +1 (same level).

But I didn't know anything about Slopes until last Saturday, so anyone chime in.

 

[Robin Reeve]

I Hateslopes !

 

[Legion]

I Hateslopes !

Whatever... but more and more of the HASLs and CGs are being made with them these days... it is a matter of learn how to use them or continue to play the same old scenarios over and over.

Still, i think that the 'fractional' level rules need to be polished up some!

 

[GVL]

Based on my previous reasoning it would be on +1 3/4 in relation to the 648. And and in relation to the 467, unit in I16 and the 467 would both be at +1 (same level).

But I didn't know anything about Slopes until last Saturday, so anyone chime in.

And if there was a squad X in J16?
Is the squad in I16 in relation to the squad in J16 at level 3/4?

This becomes more a relativity-problem for Einstein than a game.

 

[BoxCars]

And if there was a squad X in J16?
Is the squad in I16 in relation to the squad in J16 at level 3/4?

This becomes more a relativity-problem for Einstein than a game.

Listen, I not claiming to be an expert. I am just throwing this out there to get some response. Like I said, I just learned about Slopes 4 days ago.

In response to your question. I believe that a squad in I16 would be at a level +1 3/4 in relation to a squad in J16. My reasoning is based on Q3.3. Which states: "CREST-LINE SLOPE: No vehicle (or charging cavalry) may cross a combination Crest-Line-slope hexside...." Which implies it is steeper than just 1 level.

If I am getting this wrong let me know.

 

[GVL]

Listen, I not claiming to be an expert. I am just throwing this out there to get some response. Like I said, I just learned about Slopes 4 days ago.

In response to your question. I believe that a squad in I16 would be at a level +1 3/4 in relation to a squad in J16. My reasoning is based on Q3.3. Which states: "CREST-LINE SLOPE: No vehicle (or charging cavalry) may cross a combination Crest-Line-slope hexside...." Which implies it is steeper than just 1 level.

If I am getting this wrong let me know.

What determines the basis level of a squad in hex I16?
Is it the hexside? Or is the center of the hex?
If it is the hexside, I should say the level of the squad in I16 is 3/4 in relation to a squad in J16.
If it is the center of the hex, I should say the level is 1 3/4 in relation to a squad in J16.
Is Wall Advantage important for this situation?

 

[BoxCars]

What determines the basis level of a squad in hex I16?
Is it the hexside? Or is the center of the hex?
If it is the hexside, I should say the level of the squad in I16 is 3/4 in relation to a squad in J16.
If it is the center of the hex, I should say the level is 1 3/4 in relation to a squad in J16.
Is Wall Advantage important for this situation?

I would say the the center of the hex is what determines the base level of the hex (level 1). In combination with the squad in I16 being on the up-slope in relation to J16 would add another +3/4, for a total of +1 3/4.

I'm not sure that Wall Advantage would change anything so I will leave that for another day, or someone else.

 

[GVL]

So as I continue to try and understand the Slopes rules. The 467 being on an up-slope, in relation to the 648, is at a +1 3/4 level while the 640 is at level 0. There by being on a higher level and being < 5 hexes away, which does not create a blind hex due to B10.23.

Is that the reasoning, or is it something else?

I'm still convinced there is no LOS from C to D or from D to C.

If there were no slopes, there was no doubt : Rule B10.2 says there is no LOS.

Now, in this case we have slopes.
What is the level of the 467 in relation to the 648? Level 1 3/4.
What is the level of the upslope-hill-crest-hex in hex H16 in relation to the 648? It is also level 1 3/4.
Because they are on the same level, the upslope-hill-crestline of hexside H16/I17 must block LOS from C to D and from D to C ( rule B10.2).

 

[Reepicheep]

What is the level of the upslope-hill-crest-hex in hex H16 in relation to the 648? It is also level 1 3/4.

No - it's level 1. Slopes don't change the base height of any other hex that your LOS crosses on the way to D. I have a set of slope rules in front of me from a different HASL which state "The presence of >= one slope hexside does not change the elevation of that hex's Base Level." (P2.3)

I am quite new to slopes myself, but I'm pretty sure this is correct (someone will no doubt chime in quickly if I am wrong). It also makes them easier to understand... you need only worry about whether the slope affects the height of your own hex and/or your targets hex.

 

[GVL]

No - it's level 1. Slopes don't change the base height of any other hex that your LOS crosses on the way to D. I have a set of slope rules in front of me from a different HASL which state "The presence of >= one slope hexside does not change the elevation of that hex's Base Level." (P2.3)

I am quite new to slopes myself, but I'm pretty sure this is correct (someone will no doubt chime in quickly if I am wrong). It also makes them easier to understand... you need only worry about whether the slope affects the height of your own hex and/or your targets hex.

Okay,

But the most important thing is that the two upslope hexes have the same level. And then the rule B10.2 makes that LOS is blocked.
If you draw the hill and his different levels with a pencil on a paper, you can see the LOS should be blocked.

 

[tommyl]

But the most important thing is that the two upslope hexes have the same level. And then the rule B10.2 makes that LOS is blocked

But the slope rules give an exception to B10.2 for units that are "upslope" (Unit C) that allows it to see past the crestline.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Slope rules are not very intuitive, and that is why they are not easy to handle...

 

[GVL]

Slope rules are not very intuitive, and that is why they are not easy to handle...

Slope rules are not very intuitive, because there is something wrong with these rules.

The problem with these rules is that Up-slope hexsides can have different levels. It are "dancing level-hexsides".

example on page Q5 :

If I trace a LOS from I17 to H16 : the level of Upslope - hexside H16/I17 is level 1 3/4.
If I trace a LOS from I17 to F16 : the level of Upslope-hexside H16/I17 is level 1 (because LOS doesn't begin in the up-slope location).

I believe that slope hexsides should also have an influence when LOS begins in Down-slope hexsides. In that case, we shouldn't have these "dancing level-hexsides" and slopes should be much more intuitive.