Pegasus Bridge - 2 questions

[Jon]

Hi

Question 1: What is the MF cost for the 458 squad to enter Z14?
3 MF (1 for orchard and 2 for building) as per A2.4?
Or is it still just 2 MF?


Question 2: See the image below. The scenario has ended and set up areas are being determined as per Q9.605
The British control all building Locations as shown apart from Level 1 of hex Z13 which they have not entered or gained control of.
The British have Good order MMC in all their Strategic Locations. Location Z13 Level 1 is unoccupied.



Q9.6 says to carry out the steps of the RePh in the numbered/lettered order given.
So in step Q9.6051, No Man's land hexes are determined to be Y12, Y13, Y14, Y15, Z11, Z12, BB12, BB13, BB14, AA12, AA13, AA14 and AA15, due to the German Strategic Location in Z13.1.

Is this correct?
Does Q9.6054 Surrounded Hexes come into play and the the unoccupied Location become part of the British set up area at the end of this sub-step?
If yes, does this mean the hexes above are no longer No Man's Land hexes and the Britsh can extend out their setup area?

Cheers
Jon

 

[BattleSchool]

Q5.4 BUILDING-ORCHARDS:

The entry COT for a Building-Orchard hex (EX: PBZ14) prior to any further modifications for Infantry is 3 MF...

 

[A_T_Great]

Hi

Question 1: What is the MF cost for the 458 squad to enter Z14?
3 MF (1 for orchard and 2 for building) as per A2.4?
Or is it still just 2 MF?
View attachment 30841

Question 2: See the image below. The scenario has ended and set up areas are being determined as per Q9.605
The British control all building Locations as shown apart from Level 1 of hex Z13 which they have not entered or gained control of.
The British have Good order MMC in all their Strategic Locations. Location Z13 Level 1 is unoccupied.

View attachment 30842

Q9.6 says to carry out the steps of the RePh in the numbered/lettered order given.
So in step Q9.6051, No Man's land hexes are determined to be Y12, Y13, Y14, Y15, Z11, Z12, BB12, BB13, BB14, AA12, AA13, AA14 and AA15, due to the German Strategic Location in Z13.1.

Is this correct?
Does Q9.6054 Surrounded Hexes come into play and the the unoccupied Location become part of the British set up area at the end of this sub-step?
If yes, does this mean the hexes above are no longer No Man's Land hexes and the Britsh can extend out their setup area?

Cheers
Jon

One quick question first. If there are no Germans in the level 1 location, how do they still have control of it? It's possible that they can have control, just unlikely.
Based on a reading of the rules, yes all those hexes are no mans land, as are X12-X14. No it would not become part of the setup area, because it is not completely enclosed withing the British setup area.

 

[Jon]

Thanks.

Can't believe I missed Q5.4
Cheers
Jon

 

[Jon]

One quick question first. If there are no Germans in the level 1 location, how do they still have control of it? It's possible that they can have control, just unlikely.
Based on a reading of the rules, yes all those hexes are no mans land, as are X12-X14. No it would not become part of the setup area, because it is not completely enclosed withing the British setup area.

Germans control all Strategic Locations at start. Unless the British enter Level 1 with a GO MMC or Mop up the building, the Germans will still control the Level 1 Loation.

 

[Jon]

Modification of original question

British and German control of Strategic Locatiuons is shown. There is no German unit in Z15 Level 1. There are British units in all their strategic locations. For this example, treat the buildings in DD11, U12, V12 and W12 as Open ground.

*In Re Ph step 9.6051, No Man's land has been marked with Residual FP counters.
*The boundary of the British Set up area has been marked with Prep Fire counters.
Moving to Re Ph step 9.6054, it would now appear that the unoccupied Z15 Level 1 Location is is completely enclosed by the British setup area (No German unit would be eligible to Shift there (Q9.613) and so should now become part of the British set up area. Correct?

If so, does control of this Location now become British? And if it does, does this change the No-Man's land hexes to become part of the British setup area?

 

[A_T_Great]

Germans control all Strategic Locations at start. Unless the British enter Level 1 with a GO MMC or Mop up the building, the Germans will still control the Level 1 Loation.

If there were no Germans there to deny control of that level 1 location, then the British automatically gain control when they control the building. A26.14. Mopping up allows you to reveal HIP units that would deny control, as well as eliminating dummies, or capturing brokies without physically entering every location of the building.
Not the same CG, but still applicable,

A26.14 & O11.6066 The lower example on page O13 shows a
German Control marker in the ground level Location of the
building in hex G43, but wouldn’t the Russian player gain control of the entire Building by having the sole occupying unbroken unit in the building, as per A26.14?
A. Ordinarily yes – but if a German MMC occupied and Controlled that Location during step O11.6031 but was eliminated in
step O11.6041, Control would remain German.

 

[A_T_Great]

Modification of original question

British and German control of Strategic Locatiuons is shown. There is no German unit in Z15 Level 1. There are British units in all their strategic locations. For this example, treat the buildings in DD11, U12, V12 and W12 as Open ground.

*In Re Ph step 9.6051, No Man's land has been marked with Residual FP counters.
*The boundary of the British Set up area has been marked with Prep Fire counters.
Moving to Re Ph step 9.6054, it would now appear that the unoccupied Z15 Level 1 Location is is completely enclosed by the British setup area (No German unit would be eligible to Shift there (Q9.613) and so should now become part of the British set up area. Correct?

If so, does control of this Location now become British? And if it does, does this change the No-Man's land hexes to become part of the British setup area?

View attachment 30845

After seeing the full picture, then yes, that would become part of the British setup area.
Based on this from the rules, I don't think the no mans land areas become part of the setup.
After all Setup Areas have been determined each side should record (on the re¬
duced-size map) an IDfor each one. Subsequent changes in the status of (potential)
Strategic Locations (e.g., Blazing wooden rubble turned to shellholes [9.6092], a
manned immobilized vehicle with functioning MA that becomes Mobile [9.6141b],
etc.) do not alter or otherwise affect either side’s Setup Area(s) in any way; once all
Setup Areas have been correctly marked they remain thus until the start of the next

 

[A_T_Great]

On the other hand, the rules say that no mans land hexes can never be part of the setup area, so I guess they would disappear. This one might need a q&a

 

[Jon]

If there were no Germans there to deny control of that level 1 location, then the British automatically gain control when they control the building. A26.14. Mopping up allows you to reveal HIP units that would deny control, as well as eliminating dummies, or capturing brokies without physically entering every location of the building.

This is not correct. Building control is seperate to Location or Hex control. It is possible to control a Building but not have control of all Locations in that building.
See the EX on page A57.
In this specific case, the Germans controlled all Strategic Locations when the scenario began
When the British unit enters Z15 ground level, the British gain Control of the Z15 Building, the Z15 hex and the ground level Location of Z15. However, the Germans still Control Z15 Level 1 Location.
At this point the scenario ends and the British have not had the chance to either conduct Mopping Up or enter Z15 Level 1. So in the refit Phase, the Germans still have control of the upper level Loation of Z15.
In Pegasus Bridge, Strategic Locations are determined by Location, not by Building.

Not the same CG, but still applicable,
A26.14 & O11.6066 The lower example on page O13 shows a
German Control marker in the ground level Location of the
building in hex G43, but wouldn’t the Russian player gain control of the entire Building by having the sole occupying unbroken unit in the building, as per A26.14?
A. Ordinarily yes – but if a German MMC occupied and Controlled that Location during step O11.6031 but was eliminated in
step O11.6041, Control would remain German.

I haven't dived into RB to see how Strategic Locations and setup areas are deternmined, but this Q&A is specific to the HASL Red barricades only. Also the question is referring to Building Control, not Location control. RB uses Pockets and Perimeters.

Cheers
Jon

 

[A_T_Great]

This is not correct. Building control is seperate to Location or Hex control. It is possible to control a Building but not have control of all Locations in that building.
See the EX on page A57.
In this specific case, the Germans controlled all Strategic Locations when the scenario began
When the British unit enters Z15 ground level, the British gain Control of the Z15 Building, the Z15 hex and the ground level Location of Z15. However, the Germans still Control Z15 Level 1 Location.
At this point the scenario ends and the British have not had the chance to either conduct Mopping Up or enter Z15 Level 1. So in the refit Phase, the Germans still have control of the upper level Loation of Z15.
In Pegasus Bridge, Strategic Locations are determined by Location, not by Building.



I haven't dived into RB to see how Strategic Locations and setup areas are deternmined, but this Q&A is specific to the HASL Red barricades only. Also the question is referring to Building Control, not Location control. RB uses Pockets and Perimeters.

Cheers
Jon

You are right, I stand corrected.