Panzerfausts in multi-hex buildings

[djohannsen]

I don't have my rule book in front of me (lunch break at work) and I'm mulling possibilities for finishing "Wise's War" scenario (currently in-progress with a friend and coming down to the wire), so I hope people don't mind me asking a question that I could probably look-up when I get home.

Is it correct that if both the attacker and defender are in adjacent hexes (same level) in a multi-hex building, then PF use is allowed? I've previously only used a PF against infantry when the attacker and defender were in different single-hex buildings, so was firing against an exterior wall. I doubt that the rule book differentiates between interior and exterior walls, but I've been oh so wrong about ASL rules many times before.

Thanks for any answers (just thinking about what I might want to attempt after exhausting inherent FP against an adjacent squad to potentially avoid CC on the last turn).


Dave

 

[volgaG68]

Yes, you can, at potentially grave danger to those occupying the firer's Location.

 

[djohannsen]

Yes, you can, at potentially grave danger to those occupying the firer's Location.

All too aware of the danger. The last time I shot a PF from a building to another building, the American squad with MMG escaped the 16FP attack unscathed, while my squad broke from the back blast. I'm just thinking of the last turn in "Wise's War" where I need a good order (non-crew) MMC in a multi-hex building. Eating the back blast might be preferable to entering CC (where I won't be good order if I don't eliminate the attacker). Thank you for giving me one more potential course of action, should it come down to that.


Dave

 

[lightspeed]

C13.81 is called Desperation, and for good reason!

Don't forget the +1 to the PF check since you are not firing at an AFV.

indy

 

[Jazz]

I doubt that the rule book differentiates between interior and exterior walls, but I've been oh so wrong about ASL rules many times before.

In this instance, you are correct....with the exception (you knew there was one) for Factories. There is a +1 in-hex TEM and +1 LOS hindrance for intervening factory locations for a factory to factory shot where the LOS never leaves the building depiction of the factory.

 

[djohannsen]

In this instance, you are correct....with the exception (you knew there was one) for Factories.

The person with whom I'm playing had mentioned Factories as being different from usual multi-hex buildings (I think he referred to Red Barricades, which I haven't had a chance to play), so I was dimly aware of the distinction.

As a novice, sometimes it's very hard to keep everything straight (drinking from a fire hose is the cliche that springs to mind)... So much to learn, but having so much fun learning it!

Thank you, everyone.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Note that the +1 Factory TEM is not a building TEM, so a PF cannot use HE equivalency when firing vs. a unit when that TEM applies.

C8.31 HE EQUIVALENCY: ... Therefore, all HEAT ammunition (whether used by SCW or ordnance) has an HE Equivalency FP which is used against Personnel targets or for Collateral Attack and rubble/fire determination purposes. HEAT may only be fired at a vehicle or Gun, or at Infantry/Cavalry receiving a wall/building/rubble/pillbox TEM.

Here is a Q&A on the question (B23.741 differenciates between Building and Factory TEMs):

B23.741 & C8.31 - Is Factory TEM (B23.741) sufficient building TEM to qualify for a HEAT attack per C8.31?

A. No.

 

[Jazz]

Here is a Q&A on the question (B23.741 differenciates between Building and Factory TEMs):

Interesting. i was not aware of that.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Interesting. i was not aware of that.

I was made conscious of that aspect of the rule in an old question on this forum (well, its previous version) and I seem to remember that it was Ole Boe who pointed it out.

 

[djohannsen]

Good golly! I thought that I was learning this game (i.e., just knowing that I could use PF against infantry if in building/behind wall). I don't know squat yet!

Thank you for pointing out the distinction. Now I don't feel bad asking a completely elementary question, as it led to the discussion of something that not everyone knew.

 

[Brian W]

You can shot a PF into your own location if you're in a building. You can hit the enemy infantry, and, if using Desperation, both enemy and friendly infantry take the backblast. Which means you can certainly shoot another hex of the same building.

 

[von Marwitz]

Note that the +1 Factory TEM is not a building TEM, so a PF cannot use HE equivalency when firing vs. a unit when that TEM applies.


Here is a Q&A on the question (B23.741 differenciates between Building and Factory TEMs):

Interesting. Would never have thought that. Nor does it appear logical to me.
But what do I know... :dontknow

von Marwitz

 

[djohannsen]

Nor does it appear logical to me.

The mental image that I have in mind for a factory is a wide open floor (so not many interior walls), but with machinery of various types to hunker down behind (hence the +1 TEM). This may not be what the designer had in mind, but at least give the veneer of rationality to the rule (certainly enough for my satisfaction).

 

[MajorDomo]

The faust only affects one unit, so not effective versus an enemy stack in a building.

Rich

 

[djohannsen]

The faust only affects one unit, so not effective versus an enemy stack in a building.

I believe that if there is a known SW in a stack, then you can designate that unit for PF attack. Otherwise, random selection (which has the potential to affect more than one unit).

 

[Robin Reeve]

The +1 TEM doesn't represent a wall or hard surface which HEAT would function with, but machines, tubes and other diverse obstacles (think graveyard or woods +1 TEM).

 

[=FC=Gorgon]

I wonder what the TEM of an Interior Cubicle Farm would be? And would the Attack or Defender suffer from Desperation?