Announcement Panxer Blitz/leader "extras" on ebay

[62nd Army]

Gentleman

My apologies if this has already been covered. I was curious about the "extra" maps and counters available on eBay for Panzer Blitz/leader. Are there any situations to use these with?

Regards
Joe

 

[Aries]

Got any links to these items to which you mentioned?

Aside from the General issue with the Paths of Rommel, I have never heard of others.

 

[62nd Army]

Aries

Too many to cut and paste. Go to eBay "toy and Hobbies" and do a search for Panzer Blitz and Panzer leader. Hope this helps.

Regards
Joe

 

[Aries]

Found an assortment here.

http://search.ebay.ca/_W0QQsassZpaul2xsQQhtZ-1

Now the question is, are these actual "out of print" items, or, the clever work of a creative individual, and perhaps not 100% copywrite.

I saw an SS set, an Italian set, a Dak set and a set of 1944 french gear in German use counters.
The boards, I have no idea about.

Not like I have seen everything ever made for Panzerblitz/Leader of course. But the only variant I have ever heard of was called "The Path's of Rommel, and had scenarios and counters to play in 1940 France.

 

[Cundiff]

Well,

The stuff you find on e-Bay that are sold by Paul2sx are mostly copyright violations. The boards he sells are the creation of Ward McBurney and permission to create and sell those boards does exist. But, most of the PanzerBlitz/Leader & AIW Counters and expansion sets are direct copies of stuff that others have made.

In fact this individual routinely sells an expansion for B-17 Queen of the Skies that I own the copyright to. He's been told to cease and desist, but continues anyway. E-Bay is of no help. They will pull his listing of it, but will not bar him from selling. And they will pull the listing only if I file the correct paperwork each and every time he violates my copyrights, and only if that paperwork is filled out for each offense, and only if the paperwork reaches them in time to pull his sale. Which means that by the time he's caught doing it, I fill out the correct paperwork, submit it, get it returned for the inevitable e-bay request for more info, the auction has been completed and the request to remove it is no longer valid. Then he re-lists and we have to go through it all over again, with the same results.

This Paul guy has been asked kindly to stop what he does, but he's such a low life he refuses to do so.

By the way, specifically he sells a B-24 Variant for B-17 Queen of the Skies that is solely my creation. It first appeared in "The Boardgamer" magazine back in about 2001.

Beyond that I'm told his counters are very poor quality. They come apart and the printed facing has to be glued again to the cardboard backing.

Cundiff

 

[Aries]

Thanks for the warning Tom.

You have sympathisers in the form of the ASL crowd though in all likelihood, as the ASL game also gets preyed upon by scumballs that sell articles through ebay, and they have no legal claim to sell.

And eBay is as "interested" in their plight as well.

We all know, eBay is only interested in making money, will "go through the motions" to appear noble and honest, but in the end, are so f**king full of it in reality.

I do what I can to avoid painting eBay as anything other than what they truely are. If you have done business on eBay, and it was a positive experience, good on ya, but don't consider it indicative of the operation being somehow better than what I paint it.

 

[Cundiff]

I have purchased ... maybe as many as 200 items on e-Bay. I did run across three individuals, one of which had the guts to actually not make a comment after he was found to be in the wrong, but two of whom, even when they screwed up royaly proceeded to give bad rep to me, but the other 117 who bothered to leave any comment at all seem to be good sellers. On one occasion in which a large computer company sold me a defective scanner and refused to replace it (fortunately it wasn't expensive) they actually had the gall to report that I'd sent them a bad check. Thing is I sent them a money order (I refuse to use checks with online purchases because people can steal your bank account number and use it) and I provided e-Bay a copy of the money order (because I photo copy everything for proof) to prove that the feedback left by that seller was a lie. E-Bay refused to pull the comment stating that they couldn't do so unless ordered by a court. Now, that's LOW. The comments left for that seller (DAKMart by name) routinely, when they were bad, had to do with selling defective junk and leaving libelous/slanderous comments for those who merely reported the truth about them. But, e-Bay wasn't interested in fixing what was being done wrong because they're a big computer company and so was the seller. This practice of permitting "poison pen" retaliatory comments is something e-Bay needs to step up to the bar and be men about fixing - not likely as long as lawyers are involved.

I do purchase with some regularity on e-Bay. Sometimes they're games, but mostly I buy books. The vast majority of people who sell on e-Bay seem to be good people. Oh, one comes across a putz now and again.

I did find two sellers who had problems accepting cash until I pointed out to them that e-Bay didn't have the legal right to bar them from accepting cash as payment. US currency is "legal tender for all debts public and private" and it says so right on the bills; this is federal law that cannot be contravened by private contract - no private contract can be made in violation of federal law. That means legally cash cannot be refused as payment for any kind of transaction. E-Bay has made a practice of frightening their sellers into thinking they can't accept cash (and if they do they will lose their priveleges to sell on e-Bay), one supposes in order to protect buyers from getting screwed, which probably happens now and again. But, this practice is nothing less than coercive and deliberately deceptive. But, I do pay with cash for items costing less than $10 because the cost of driving to town to buy a money order for something less than $10 isn't justified, not with $3.00+ per gallon of gas. One seller gave me a hard time about payment, but once he had written that he'd actually received the payment I asked him "so, you say you have the cash in hand?" Well, then just send the damned CD! I guess the admission that he had received the money cooked his goose enough to cause him to send the thing. If he had indicated that he'd not received it he could have been a pain simply by claiming non-payment. Said individual simply left no comment after the transaction. Another I had to actually threaten with legal action to get him to send the thing, after he too had admitted to having received the cash. But, he'd stupidly sent the cash back along with a letter stating that he couldn't legally accept cash. I wrote him back and proceeded to press the issue that they couldn't refuse cash as payment. The letter stating that they couldn't accept cash was admission of their violation of federal law. In the end I got the book from this vendor for free! They too left no comments. At least these two fools had guts enough to understand their errors and make no comment, which is an acceptable resolution to me and I followed suit rather than call attention to their stupidity in their feedback.

But, this is an example of how e-Bay uses coercive methods to control their vendors. Yes, e-Bay is an example of the worst behavior committed by big businessmen and bureaucrats.

Still, when you deal with small sellers, on the whole I have found them to be honest.

Tom

 

[Aries]

As I see it, eBay and Walmart might as well be brothers.

It depends on who you ask, it depends on what one is expecting to get out of the experience.

Walmart is a godsend to mothers. Mothers tend to value the ability to purchase children's clothes for the lowest amount possible. Mothers usually have no choice in a world where you have to make 10 bucks go as far as 15.

But, we can sit here and post all about how Walmart pursues business practices sufficiently crappy, that ideally we should be trying to crush the business out of business.

eBay is the same.
I have a friend that makes a tidy income thanks to ebay. But he knows the score, and he knows he either plays the "game" or he gets screwed.
He has learned how to measure the EXACT weight of a parcel. He knows that to ship an item one way can mean he pays 5 bucks, or 2.50 another way (those are just explanatary sums).
He knows the shape counts. He knows that if you post it at a main postal office, you get a different response than if you drop it in mail box and just let the system have it.
He's sold MANY things through ebay, and knows, you can list them a dozen different ways. There are cheap routes and not cheap routes.

But through it all, eBay gets a cut, and only a total dope thinks eBay isn't going to place THEIR interests first. They are only interested in the law when they have no other option, otherwise, they just don't see able to "do anything" somehow.

eBay has such a well oiled machine, that it just works so well, that to go against the flow is just a waste of time and or energy.

The sad terrible truth, is any one of us wargamers could be selling 100% illegal copies of any damn thing we wanted through eBay, and chances are, there really nothing the law could do about it, if we kept it under control, and didn't try to be too greedy. Because, you only get swatted if you make the system scatch the itch eh. And that is not saying anything more than stating the bloody obvious.

Really, the only thing stopping me from doing what you have done Tom (create cool Up Front cards) is you did all the work to end up with the item, and I have not felt like doing the work.
I have a computer though, access to a scanner, I could do the research, generate cards, print them out, and presto be in a position to sell them too.
But I'm sure it took you a lot of time and effort.

I'd probably like to get the Panzer Leader counters I saw in those listings, but, I think I would want to know they were coming from the creator too.
Otherwise, I could always just take a hand at making some myself too.

 

[Cundiff]

Yes, it does take me a long time to develop a set of Up Front cards, or even Panzerblitz/Leader counters for that matter. That's because I don't scan and print the same ones from the game. The numbers are researched and generated on my own, the artwork is not only different, but I even go so far as to make certain I use fonts that are different from the originals. I don't want anything from the originals to be on my cards/counters.

But, it does seem that this difference is unimportant to e-Bay. That is to say they don't care if something is a violation of copyrights or not, as long as they get their cut. That permits things like what Paul2sx is doing to flourish. No original work, just copying others, and then selling it through e-Bay. The only reason I don't sell through e-Bay is because I don't know how, don't have credit cards for them to charge my account, and can't figure out their commissions. I'm afraid that if I sold through them somehow I'd end up owing more than I'd make. It isn't worth it to me. I figure that if people really want what I produce they'll go searching for it, and find me.

 

[ivanmoe]

Paul2xs also manufactures counters which he sells as originals. I contacted EBay when I spotted them and they refused to take action against him. It makes me sick, because a lot of folks don't know enough about the parts to know fakes from originals. Aren't counterfeiting and fraud illegal, or did that change with NAFTA, or something?

Another AH-related scam on Ebay is the "shrink-wrapped" game. That ensures a complete game, right? Well, no it doesn't. Most AH games were NEVER wrapped. The sellers want to create the illusion of a "new" or "mint" game, so THEY wrap it. And when an unsuspecting buyer opens the package and discovers that the box is half-empty, the seller simply claims that he had no knowledge of the contents because he couldn't examine it!

In both of the instances above, if you post negative feedback on the scheister in question, they'll simply call you a LIAR in response and muck up your buyer rating.

I've bought a lot of old AH games on Ebay. Most of the sellers are alright. As to the counterfeiters and shrinkwrappers, I guess you just have to know the product and be very, very careful with your purchases.

'Moe

 

[Aries]

Hmm I can't recall a single wargame ever, that wasn't shrink wrapped actually.

But yeah, that process of fake shrink wrap is alas not a new dodge.

And yeah, I think I have already established my own personal opinion of eBay. It might be 95% legit, but ebay is not one bit remorseful about the last 5%.

It's likely a lot more than 5% too, I'm just trying to think hopeful.

 

[ivanmoe]

Hmm I can't recall a single wargame ever, that wasn't shrink wrapped actually.

Hi Aries,

I hate to date myself, but for many, many years, decades in fact, no AH games were wrapped. They arrived on store shelves the same way that they arrived via parcel post, totally free of wrapping. They weren't even taped, box lid to bottom. I guess that the thinking was that the contents were of little interest to any erstwhile shoplifter, so why bother. Obviously, things have changed.

'Moe

 

[Chaim628]

Well,

The stuff you find on e-Bay that are sold by Paul2sx are mostly copyright violations. The boards he sells are the creation of Ward McBurney and permission to create and sell those boards does exist. But, most of the PanzerBlitz/Leader & AIW Counters and expansion sets are direct copies of stuff that others have made.

This Paul guy has been asked kindly to stop what he does, but he's such a low life he refuses to do so.

By the way, specifically he sells a B-24 Variant for B-17 Queen of the Skies that is solely my creation. It first appeared in "The Boardgamer" magazine back in about 2001.

Beyond that I'm told his counters are very poor quality. They come apart and the printed facing has to be glued again to the cardboard backing.

I wish I had read this warning in time. I bought some PB counters from him on eBay. They were in bad print and glued to a green plastic. When I left a neutral comment he replied that all his customers were satisfied. A lot seem to be, surprisingly...:crosseye: