PAK 35/36

PT109

Recruit
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
There was a discussion about the German 3.7L PAK gun in the 'General' forum.....so here's my question

The ammo number on the counter says H6(9)..HEAT, ROF of 3 with a roll of <6 for the HEAT round, correct? Chapter H says a successful firing of this weapon reduces your ROF by 1, ok makes sense so far.

Now your ROF is 2 for the next shot, or am I all wet on this 1? This would mean, as long as you keep rolling <6, and fire again, your ROF would reduce? This doesn't make since to me, but maybe the designers figured eventually you wouldn't retain your ROF or roll your H6 number.

Anyone encounter this in ASL?

However, the Chapter H notes do say, once you fire the weapon, your ROF roll is now 1-2 instead of 1-3 on the colored die.

Thanks...PT109
 

Brian W

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
7,172
Reaction score
1,133
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
PT109 said:
However, the Chapter H notes do say, once you fire the weapon, your ROF roll is now 1-2 instead of 1-3 on the colored die.
NASLRBH, but I would have to assume that the ROF reduces by 1 for that shot if you succeed in gaining the special ammunition. If you do not succeed, there is no shot. If you switch to another form of ammo, the ROF returns to normal.
 

pzkfw5g

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
76
Reaction score
0
Location
Idaho
Country
llUnited States
Special ammo is another house rule I and my cabal have used for many years: A check for that ammo is done before the shot is made; reason being that the way the rules are, you have to roll low on the TH to get the ammo which usually will result in a hit thus making special ammo hit more often than regular ammo which I cannot justify without also reducing ROF to reflect more time taken in aligning the shot. We also use a third die for ROF because we can't find a reason why a poor shot should take any more time than a good shot.
 

Darkman

Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
132
Reaction score
1
Location
Portland OR
Country
llUnited States
extra die roll for ROF

We also use a third die for ROF because we can't find a reason why a poor shot should take any more time than a good shot.
While I sort of agreee with 5g's first idea of a house rule (pre rolling for special ammo availability). The last one he listed that I quoted I would have to point out is not a very good idea.

The key to understanding why that rule is a significant change, is to remember why ROF rules are as written. ROF means an efficently conducted engagement. When you roll to hit (or IIFT) you not rolling for a lone shot. But an abstraction of how well the firing group did its job. Both how fast they got their shot off and how well. If you roll say a 10 (cd 4, wd 6) you havn't just fired one bad shot, your groups whole perforance was a lot of wasted shots at their target. Or poor performance in getting shots off so you had limited (if any) effect on your target. Which would be why you've lost your ROF with bad to hit dice.
 

pzkfw5g

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
76
Reaction score
0
Location
Idaho
Country
llUnited States
extra die roll for ROF

D-man,

Another reason for the third die for ROF is to reduce the chances of getting maimed by a single stack in a single phase. E.g.: in RB I once saw a 10-3 kill stack w/2 HMG's get ROF 8 times consecutively, since you can't DR above 9 and still get ROF in this case, that left 2 companies of Germans shot to pieces in one phase from one attacker which I consider unlikely (even less so than getting ROF 8 times). While your analysis makes sense, it ignores what the target may be doing to reduce or improve the effectiveness of incomming fire, hence a DR=10 with 3rd die making ROF would represent the target being mostly out of LOS for a moment or a momentary distraction of the firer while a DR=3 with 3rd die failing ROF might represent the target going to full cover (especially after getting smashed) or a serious distraction of the firer immediately after the last volley.

ROF means an efficently conducted engagement.
If that was true, why don't squads have inherent ROF? A9.2(rb#1), "This time factor is abstractly represented by the Original colored dr..." Smaller calibre guns have higher ROF because it takes less time to perform the firing cycle of aim-fire-reload. I feel that using a 3rd die for ROF better represents the myriad possibilities that can happen during that time without unduely rewarding someone with hot dice since you can't roll very badly and still get ROF as the rule is written. Most people hate house rules, but this has worked well in my small group for many years now.
 

mdholt

Recruit
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Location
Dothan, Alabama
Country
llUnited States
The Stielgranate 41 Heat round was an oversized warhead that was muzzle loaded into the 37 ATG which is why the ROF is reduced by one when using it. Its oversized warhead also accounts for its high TK number and the reduced range of only 9 hexes max. This round is only available in 42 and later ( C 8.3).
 
Top