KED
Member
Is this a rumor or a fact? If true, when will it be out?
Pacific SKASL ?
- Thread starter KED
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ozradio
Member
What is SKASL?
klasmalmstrom
Forum Guru
Starter Kit ASL, and yes there is a PTO Module in the works.
Craig Benn
Senior Member
I have no axe to grind against starter kit - it's how I started...and if people want to remain at starter kit and not play full ASL that's fine too...
...but how do you do PTO without concealment?
...but how do you do PTO without concealment?
jrv
Forum Guru
In the issue of Special Ops that was released last week, Ken Dunn confirmed that concealment will indeed be in the PTO SK module. He also specifically states it's being balanced for the PTO only, and you shouldn't expect to be able to bolt the rules onto prior scenarios and have it work.
EDIT: If memory serves he also states in the article that it is available for preorder "now", so I would assume we should look for it to be posted shortly.
You put a banner/flag pole on each Japanese soldier's back like in their medieval battles. For the US tell them they are tourists, they will then go into LOUD mode. For the British, tell them Singapore has fallen and the sharp cracking of their stiff upper lip will give them away. Give the Aussies some shrimp and beers, an Aussie barbie will be seen and heard for miles.
KED
Member
I started with ASL and before that SL when they first came out. The WSL system was very much like the Starter Kits now. Every new module not only introduced players to a new "revised" nations OOB but also new rules concepts. The problem was with each new module came a new rule book that only dealt with that module or revised an old rule or two. You can see where this eventually became a problem. Looking up a rule became a problem to say the least. The ASL system fixed all that by having a set bunch of rules in one binder were if a rules revision was required Avalon Hill or MMP would provide a new page in another module to replace the old.
Now the SK line is doing what the original Squad Leader game did for us original "Newbies". It's to slowly introduce new players to the many and varied concepts of ASL one module at a time. The counters are all compatible with ASL as are the boards so what's the hub bub all about? I buy them now because I like the concept.
Adding a PTO module is just another concept for the future new ASLer to wrap their heads around. Concealment, caves and maybe the art of the Bonsai attack will add flavor to the SK system.
The SK system is also great for beginners because of the cost. It's cheap! For the price of BV3 and the ASL rule book (three ring binder) some one that wants to try this style of game out could purchase four maybe five SK modules. And even if only 50% of SK players move on to ASL it's still a boost to the ASL community.
Was that to long winded?
Great idea MMP! Keep it up!
Now the SK line is doing what the original Squad Leader game did for us original "Newbies". It's to slowly introduce new players to the many and varied concepts of ASL one module at a time. The counters are all compatible with ASL as are the boards so what's the hub bub all about? I buy them now because I like the concept.
Adding a PTO module is just another concept for the future new ASLer to wrap their heads around. Concealment, caves and maybe the art of the Bonsai attack will add flavor to the SK system.
The SK system is also great for beginners because of the cost. It's cheap! For the price of BV3 and the ASL rule book (three ring binder) some one that wants to try this style of game out could purchase four maybe five SK modules. And even if only 50% of SK players move on to ASL it's still a boost to the ASL community.
Was that to long winded?
Great idea MMP! Keep it up!
Yes, you would, as would I. But, you have to remember there is a large group and a large market of players who are SK only. A healthy SK means a healthy MMP, which means a healthy ASL.
Bob Walters
Senior Member
One can always play the scenarios using the full rule set. If it seems unbalanced then switch sides and play it again.
KED
Member
What would be wrong with getting a few extra USMC and Japanese MMC and equipment counters as a bonus? As I said earlier, they are all the same as ASL counters. It's sort of an action pack with counters.
I also noticed in some of these threads that many SK players switch to ASL rather quickly.
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kcole4001
Stray Cat
Maybe the PTO is where concealment will join the SK rules.
I've explained to my son that concealment is the biggest difference between SK and ASL, and it makes a huge change in the way you play,
most often in the first couple of turns in many scenarios, but also growing ? afterwards.
That and the ever present SAN make the most difference in play, but concealment is definitely the biggy.
I've explained to my son that concealment is the biggest difference between SK and ASL, and it makes a huge change in the way you play,
most often in the first couple of turns in many scenarios, but also growing ? afterwards.
That and the ever present SAN make the most difference in play, but concealment is definitely the biggy.
I don't think SAN affects play that much; the biggest change is bypass movement. Lack of bypass movement greatly limits infantry mobility and greatly decreases the avenues of approach of vehicles, making defending much easier. I'd rather forgo concealment as the Defender than allow bypass movement in anything except wide open terrain or dense jungle.
Justiciar
Elder Member
Not looking for a flame war...
...but I think BYPASS is the biggie, as BW notes. ASL is a game of time and distance and movement, over firepower even (thus concealment needs). The jump for the SK to ASL player is relearning all your time and distance calculations. A position which you once thought could not be reached for 2x turns say, and thus a good rally spot, or for VC defense plans, or exit timing is now within reach much sooner. BYPASS will also mess with how you even 'grow ?'.
Though there are quite a few who dislike ASLSK as it might divert MMP resources and potential players from ASL , I am definitely not one of them, despite my joking in a previous post.
So far the SK end has got a Bonus Pack, a few dozen Special Ops scenarios and 4 modules (which are smaller than ASL core modules). So I will far from begrudge the SK only crowd a 5th module, indeed I will actually cheer a SK PTO module. Since the 1st SK, ASL has got at least 2 HASL, 2 (combined) core reprints, a new core and very roughly a half dozen each of AP, Journals and WOs (at least). As far as I know the SK development team is different from the ASL developers, so both in theory and in practice SKs take almost nothing from ASL development. Let them have their few toys! As well, I have bought SKs for boards and counters and solo tried out a few SK scenarios using full rules, so I have got something out of the SKs.
There has been much discussion about whether many SK players move onto full ASL. While MMP may have a vague idea from the relative sales of ASLSK and ASL, I would strongly doubt anyone else has a good grasp on the number who transition. In the end does it matter? Those who have the mental inclination for the enormously complicated game that is ASL will transition, others will drop ASL/ASLSK and some will stay with ASLSK. The SKs are an excellent introduction into ASL, my route of SL to GI was quite frustrating with the ever changing rules, so I cannot see the SKs but helping ASL. For those who decide that SK is just right, but no more, they still support MMP's financial position and the ASL players can get some new boards and extra counters. Those were unlikely to go full ASL anyway and the SKs provide a much less frightening path into ASL for those who would. Never forget that ASL cold turkey is a very, very intimidating jump for most wargame players, never mind non-wargame players.
The possible inclusion on Concealment in a PTO pack? I can see some SK players being a bit put off, as others have said, it's one of the biggest differences between SK and ASL. A gentle Concealment introduction might be what it takes to tip some SK players into going Full Metal ASL. I don't know, we shall see. What I would suggest is that MMP include Concealment counters for all or most of their existing SK nationalities, so SK players can back fit concealment to existing scenarios, if they so wish.
So far the SK end has got a Bonus Pack, a few dozen Special Ops scenarios and 4 modules (which are smaller than ASL core modules). So I will far from begrudge the SK only crowd a 5th module, indeed I will actually cheer a SK PTO module. Since the 1st SK, ASL has got at least 2 HASL, 2 (combined) core reprints, a new core and very roughly a half dozen each of AP, Journals and WOs (at least). As far as I know the SK development team is different from the ASL developers, so both in theory and in practice SKs take almost nothing from ASL development. Let them have their few toys! As well, I have bought SKs for boards and counters and solo tried out a few SK scenarios using full rules, so I have got something out of the SKs.
There has been much discussion about whether many SK players move onto full ASL. While MMP may have a vague idea from the relative sales of ASLSK and ASL, I would strongly doubt anyone else has a good grasp on the number who transition. In the end does it matter? Those who have the mental inclination for the enormously complicated game that is ASL will transition, others will drop ASL/ASLSK and some will stay with ASLSK. The SKs are an excellent introduction into ASL, my route of SL to GI was quite frustrating with the ever changing rules, so I cannot see the SKs but helping ASL. For those who decide that SK is just right, but no more, they still support MMP's financial position and the ASL players can get some new boards and extra counters. Those were unlikely to go full ASL anyway and the SKs provide a much less frightening path into ASL for those who would. Never forget that ASL cold turkey is a very, very intimidating jump for most wargame players, never mind non-wargame players.
The possible inclusion on Concealment in a PTO pack? I can see some SK players being a bit put off, as others have said, it's one of the biggest differences between SK and ASL. A gentle Concealment introduction might be what it takes to tip some SK players into going Full Metal ASL. I don't know, we shall see. What I would suggest is that MMP include Concealment counters for all or most of their existing SK nationalities, so SK players can back fit concealment to existing scenarios, if they so wish.
KED
Member
As more and more rules get included into the ASLSK system it too will become very much like ASL. BY SK10 they can change the name a little to say.... SK10 Introduction to ASL! After maybe 2 or 3 more of these types of SK modules and another SK campaign game. After that one mode SK module titled "Graduation Module". It will polish off some of the ASL lesser used rules, simplified of course, and come with a graduation diploma. It should state something like, "Graduate, as you have made it this far there is not much more for you to learn with this system." A little more blaa, blaa, blaa, then "It's time to leave the nest and start exploring the world of ASL and all it has to offer. Congratulations!" Then have the thing signed by the SK team members. Just an idea.
Nice post Paul!
Nice post Paul!