Pacific CGs without USMC

DWPetros

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2016
Messages
143
Reaction score
406
Country
llUnited States
Here's the source materials for Kakazu Ridge for those (hopefully) interested in going for a HASL:
See pages 113-125 and 134-35

Kakazu Ridge would make an excellent HASL for a number of reasons (PTO, attack on prepared position, counter-attacks, reverse-slope battle) . While true that the Japanese were generally on the defensive, they weren't at all inactive and didn't just hunker down in their caves. They attacked repeatedly, and not just crazy banzai attacks. (from the Green Book)

7471

And note the red arrows below - Japanese attacks on April 9th.

7472

And April 10th (above narrative) - note Japanese counterattack
7473

Kakazu Ridge was not an American victory. The Japanese successfully held the ridge until they decided to drop back. KR was a huge problem for the Americans at Okinawa.
 
Last edited:

von Marwitz

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
9,704
Reaction score
2,878
Location
Kraut Corner
Country
llGibraltar
About the smell linked to the food, I also read that in a book about the Burma campaign.
Presumably, Japanese could also detect British and Americans after their smell - olfactive sense is one of the most performant one.
Well, there is something more behind this:

I have read in many books that Japanese and Allied forces could detect their opponents by the way they smelled. The underlying fact seems to be that the body odor of Europeans (counting the Americans among them for being decendants) differs from those of people from the Far East.



Demographics


World map of the distribution of the A allele of the single nucleotide polymorphism rs17822931 in the ABCC11 gene. The proportion of A alleles in each population is represented by the white area in each circle.

The history of the migration of humans can be traced back using the ABCC11 gene alleles. The variation between ear wax and body odor in ethnicities around the world are specifically due to the ABCC11 gene alleles.[7] It is hypothesized that 40,000 years ago, an ancient Mongoloid tribe evolved the dry ear wax phenotype that followed a spread of the dry ear wax allele to other regions of Asia via migration of the ancient tribe.[10] The gene spread as a result of it being a beneficial adaption or through an evolutionary neutral mutation mechanism that went through genetic drift events.[10]
The frequency of alleles for dry ear wax and odorless sweat is most concentrated in East- and Northeast Asia, most notably Korea, China, Mongolia, and western Japan.[7] Conversely the frequency of the allele for wet ear wax and odored sweat are highest in African-American and sub-saharan populations.[7] A downward gradient of dry ear wax allele phenotypes can be drawn from northern China to southern Asia and an east–west gradient can also be drawn from eastern Siberia to western Europe.[7] The allele frequencies within ethnicities continued to be maintained because the ABCC11 gene is inherited as a haplotype, a group of genes or alleles that tend to be inherited as a single unit[7][11]
The amount of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) in ear wax was found to be related to variation in ABCC11 genotype, which in turn is dependent on ethnic origin. In particular, the rs17822931 genotype, which is especially prevalent in East Asians, is correlated with lower VOC levels.
[12]


So, while soldiers in the field subject to low hygiene will smell bad in any case, they will apparently still smell different due to their ethnic gene alleles in such a way that this was percieved by the soldiers in PTO of both sides. So facts rather than urban legend behind this.

von Marwitz
 

sswann

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2003
Messages
2,362
Reaction score
246
Location
Lost in Mississippi
Country
llUnited States
I think that there actually were more US Army troops fighting in the PTO than USMC.

SS>> There were.

About the smell linked to the food, I also read that in a book about the Burma campaign.
Presumably, Japanese could also detect British and Americans after their smell - olfactive sense is one of the most performant one.
Smell worked in Viet Nam also.
 

xenovin

Elder Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Messages
1,828
Reaction score
907
Location
Skynet
First name
Vincent
Country
llUnited States
A friend of mine lived and worked in Korea for a while (civilian not military) and he told me the Koreans said westerners smell like milk from all the dairy we eat. But this was only after he learned Korean and started understanding what folks were saying about him on the train lol.

Well, there is something more behind this:

I have read in many books that Japanese and Allied forces could detect their opponents by the way they smelled. The underlying fact seems to be that the body odor of Europeans (counting the Americans among them for being decendants) differs from those of people from the Far East.



Demographics


World map of the distribution of the A allele of the single nucleotide polymorphism rs17822931 in the ABCC11 gene. The proportion of A alleles in each population is represented by the white area in each circle.

The history of the migration of humans can be traced back using the ABCC11 gene alleles. The variation between ear wax and body odor in ethnicities around the world are specifically due to the ABCC11 gene alleles.[7] It is hypothesized that 40,000 years ago, an ancient Mongoloid tribe evolved the dry ear wax phenotype that followed a spread of the dry ear wax allele to other regions of Asia via migration of the ancient tribe.[10] The gene spread as a result of it being a beneficial adaption or through an evolutionary neutral mutation mechanism that went through genetic drift events.[10]
The frequency of alleles for dry ear wax and odorless sweat is most concentrated in East- and Northeast Asia, most notably Korea, China, Mongolia, and western Japan.[7] Conversely the frequency of the allele for wet ear wax and odored sweat are highest in African-American and sub-saharan populations.[7] A downward gradient of dry ear wax allele phenotypes can be drawn from northern China to southern Asia and an east–west gradient can also be drawn from eastern Siberia to western Europe.[7] The allele frequencies within ethnicities continued to be maintained because the ABCC11 gene is inherited as a haplotype, a group of genes or alleles that tend to be inherited as a single unit[7][11]
The amount of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) in ear wax was found to be related to variation in ABCC11 genotype, which in turn is dependent on ethnic origin. In particular, the rs17822931 genotype, which is especially prevalent in East Asians, is correlated with lower VOC levels.
[12]


So, while soldiers in the field subject to low hygiene will smell bad in any case, they will apparently still smell different due to their ethnic gene alleles in such a way that this was percieved by the soldiers in PTO of both sides. So facts rather than urban legend behind this.

von Marwitz
 

fleitz3

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
124
Reaction score
20
Location
LITTLETON, CO
Country
llUnited States
I heard that, due to our eating diary, we are said to smell like corpses by the Chinese.
Just a hearsay or urban legend?
Asked this for you, of my Chinese-born wife and her parents (now visiting here). Westerners definitely have a noticeably different smell, not exactly corpse-like. There are different ethnic groups she definitely considers as smelling much worse, who will not be mentioned here.
 

Mike205

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Messages
99
Reaction score
169
Country
llUnited States
So... been reading the green series on Kakazu in between work obligations. Two interesting CG elements stand out so far- the prevalence of defender prereg'ed hexes and Japanese sneaking out and creating pill boxes out of abandoned U.S. tanks. Yikes.

Totally believe that with a handful of new rule additions and some cleaning up, a CG would be a pretty accessible endeavor. Question would be: release as a HASL CG with the map and a few counters or release as an addition to a journal or annual?
 

DWPetros

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2016
Messages
143
Reaction score
406
Country
llUnited States
So... been reading the green series on Kakazu in between work obligations. Two interesting CG elements stand out so far- the prevalence of defender prereg'ed hexes and Japanese sneaking out and creating pill boxes out of abandoned U.S. tanks. Yikes.

Totally believe that with a handful of new rule additions and some cleaning up, a CG would be a pretty accessible endeavor. Question would be: release as a HASL CG with the map and a few counters or release as an addition to a journal or annual?
Interesting comments. Lots of interesting things in this battle.

I agree that preparing a HASL for Kakazu Ridge is very do-able. Not sure how MMP would choose to handle this if at all, but my view would be the choice of 1) as a new HASL with map, new counters and rules, 2) just the new CG rules (2 different choices). I suspect many don't have the J2 release and would welcome having all this, while the guys with J2 in hand would only need the CG rules.
 

hongkongwargamer

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
Messages
5,635
Reaction score
2,717
Location
17 hexes
Country
llPortugal
How about PTO HASL without Marines?

Proper PTO for me is British Commonwealth (Gurkhas, Aussies, Indians), Kachin Rangers + Chinese and all.
 
Last edited:

dlazov

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
7,542
Reaction score
868
Location
Toledo, Ohio
First name
Don
Country
llUnited States
CH has:
  • Armored Stand (US Army vs Japan)
  • Ordeal Before Shuri (US Army vs Japan)
  • Blood and Iron (US Army vs Japan)
  • Those Ragged Bloody Heroes (Aussies vs Japan)
 

Eagle4ty

Elder Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
3,776
Reaction score
1,417
Location
Eau Claire, Wi
Country
llUnited States
I think there could be a lot of non-Marine HASLs.. Buna-Gona possibly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Buna–Gona
Just don't use the wiki for your source material, no such unit as the 11/128th or 11/126th (1-128 or 1-126 or perhaps 2-128 & 2-126). Actually in WW-II U.S. military usage, only non-combat units were annotated with a slash (2/132nd Spt), combat units were to be noted by dashes (1-128th Inf). However, since the army was replete with civilians pressed into military service (i.e. the draft) the distinction was honored more in the breech than by design. Over the years this little tidbit has been lost or ignored and either presentation is generally accepted for both type of units except by those anayl retentive types (like myself).;)
 
Top