OVHS - Smoke is crucial-why no SSR?

TankDawg

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Hi Kevin and John S,

Have another question for ya that is even more important. As I begin to figure out my attack plan as the Canadian, and reading several historical references covering this battle, I am extremely concerned.

In the designer notes, John writes:

"the Canadians, in order to survive the initial CG Day, would need to emply smoke liberally."

and

"crossing the open was problematic, requiring judicous use of smoke."

Yet, if either myself or my opponent rolls a 10 or greater during the rally phase weather roll (20%+ chance) rain will start eliminating all existing smoke and preventing further placement of it. This would have a HUGE impact on what is already a daunting task for the canadians! " Come on boys, only 2000 yards of open ground to cover with NO cover." :roll:

So, why not either of these SSRs to keep the play balance somewhat even:

1. Through turns 1-6, while overcast ignore weather rolls that create rain.
2. SMOKE can exist and be placed during rain.

You guys tweaked the mud rules to allow smoke, why not this?

Could you let me know what the playtest results were when it starting raining in those first 6 crucial turns? (ie, do I have a chance?)

This, combined with the possibility of the creeping barrages not starting on time (other thread) have me less than enthused to play this CG that I had been, up to now, been eager to play for a year.

Thanks,
 

Perry

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TankDawg said:
Could you let me know what the playtest results were when it starting raining in those first 6 crucial turns? (ie, do I have a chance?)


Thanks,
The best laid plans of mice and Canadians gang aft aglay.

SMOKE should not be automatic.

If it Rains, it will be a heavy rain, which will help provide some cover.

We specifically playtested the CG under these conditions and the Canadians survived just fine. Other "unbalancing" DR have as much impact.

....Perry
 

TankDawg

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Perry,

Thanks for reply. But when designer notes specifically point out that smoke is key I have to beleive them. It was so important to John, Kevin and gang that they changed Mud rules more or less.

FYI, smoke should not be affected by rain. That is a mistake in ASLRB. Any body that has scene smoke used knows this.

Luckily, I beleive Chapter E is still totally optional, so will tell my opponent no rain.

:D

The reason many have so much trouble with OBA and Smoke in ASL is EXACTLY this. If smoke does not come down, or a OBA does get 'access,' attacks in 'real life' are delayed. In ASL, you are totally screwed and the balance goes down hill.

That is why you see HoB, Schwepunkt and others using SSR's to correct the problem.
 

Cthulhu

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I always wondered why smoke wouldn't work in muddy conditions...but I suppose that would be a "reality" argument :shock: <clutching pearls>
 

TankDawg

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Smoke DOES work in Mud and Rain.

Not sure how the ASL God's missed this in the first place.

You can tell that they were well versed in leadership, infantry and armor, but really grasping at straws with OBA and smoke rules.
 
G

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Cthulhu said:
I always wondered why smoke wouldn't work in muddy conditions...but I suppose that would be a "reality" argument :shock: <clutching pearls>
I can tell you smoke does work in mud and rain. I was a forward observer in the U.S. Army and have actually observed and adjusted smoke missions in rainy and muddy conditions. I have never understood the ASL use of smoke other than the person who wrote that particular rule did not have good information.

I have also read a lot of British accounts of actions in which smoke was routinely employed in such conditions. I am solving this problem with SSRs in such scenarios that I am currently designing.
 

apbills

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TankDawg - What do you want?! The Canadians already outnumber the Germans more than 2-1, have 16 tanks, 3 wasps and assorted carriers against 4 2ROF AT guns. The barrage itself gives you a +2 LOS Hindrance regardless of rain. If you can't defeat the Germans in this first scenario, you need to reassess your attack plan. :shock:

I think it would be better for you to NOT ignore Chapter E, but just start on the second scenario, assume you have the entire board, roll some dice to determine your losses for the first day, and assume there are no Germans left. It would save you all the anguish of having to actually think about that attack.

:wink: :wink:

Now, if you really want to try the attack, think like this scenario is a Schwerpunkt gem - no Monty's allowed.
 

jthompson

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I also served as an FO and spent 20 out of my 27 yrs in the Field Artillery. I never saw any adverse effect on Smoke or WP in the rain or mud, it still worked. I never understood this portion of the Smoke rules and don't even get me started on the OBA rules.
 

Oliver

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Alan,

That was funny. As a fellow German player, I know your pain -- and I like your solution!

And Jeff thinks he has it so bad. :roll: :wink:

FWIW, an Army buddy of mine said that at least WP should go off in Rain. A great topic worthy of a dedicated room, I'd say... let me see... <typing noises>

Oliver
 
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