Overlays to get more use from seldom-used boards?

Would you purchase a scenario pack that included overlays instead of boards?

  • Hell yeah.

    Votes: 14 82.4%
  • Meh

    Votes: 3 17.6%
  • Hell no.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

footsteps

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Liking the saddle on board 2, although something about the road network where boards 2 and 50 join at the Q Row seems forced. Not your fault. It's due to the original roads. My brain wants to connect 2Q1 with 50T9 (and possibly convert the road in 50Q9 to a path, eliminating the road in 50Q10 at the same time).

It just occurred to me that there aren't any road overlays, overlays that could be used to alter an exisitng road or create a new one. Wonder if there is any value in having a few of those.
Since the overlays maintain a geomorphic edge, the boards can be swapped around, or even remove some overlays to create outlets and road connections. Only your imagination holds you back! ;)
 

DWPetros

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Overlays are not popular - not in MMP's view, not in many players view, so it seems.

Not all Olays are created equal. Some olays (call them that) such as #1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (mainly the ones given for the PTO boards), should be considered more like 'half-boards' that fit on existing boards. Unlike regular small olays, they're not fussy, not easily lost, should be not so expensive to produce, and could be applied in uncountable ways. You could get a '2 fer' out of them by printing one such sheet with 2 large such overlays.

You could make some 'multi-geo' 1/2 board Olays for those boards that already are designed that way; boards 54, 55, 69, 70 for instance. You could design historical chunks of terrain; think Aachen, Oosterbeek, Berlin Olays to our city boards. There are too many possibilities to imagine.

No offense but, you could alternatively turn up your disimagination and just say 'who needs em?'
 

DWPetros

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Not at all! Board 3 is cool, and on Board 9 I'd take out all that +4 terrain and building mass at DD6 while you're at it!
 

footsteps

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Not at all! Board 3 is cool, and on Board 9 I'd take out all that +4 terrain and building mass at DD6 while you're at it!
The footprint I use for the mountain overlays don't reach that far.
 

von Marwitz

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Way, way back, many centuries ago...

My very first foray into overlays created connections between 'mountain' boards 2, 15, & 50.

View attachment 11745
I remember making a very similar proposal for overlays quite some time ago and later again for Fort style boards with regard to the creation of 'horseshoe hill' terrain or 'diagonal terrain'.

Furthermore, I keep restating my idea of 'transparent overlays' i.e. for example roads depictions (only) printed on folio, so you can create new avenues through woods, OG or other terrain.

I might find some links...
Here is an interesting thread that could be applied to overlays:


von Marwitz
 
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DWPetros

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The 'ideas wanted' was something i posted some time ago - and still applies I think. When it comes to new boards/overlays - more is better. We have all the other stuff needed to play; rules, counters. We're collectors. ASL boards & overlays are practically the only avenue for new things to add to our collections (well, new scenarios too).

As for transparent OLs - I've been experimenting with them. Haven't yet been able to produce them on clear acetate - but that's a technical thing that I think can be accomplished somehow. There's a limit I think however, to the kinds of transparencies that would make sense. Here's some of the kind that might be used a lot:
Rubble
Roadblocks
Trenches / AT Ditches
Wire (but hard to see)

Some that might not be used so much: (mainly OLs types that we have which are now confined to Level 0):
Buildings, Woods, Grain, Brush, Hedges, etc
 

Tooz

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Jacometti

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A few years ago there was a contest here on GS to create new overlays to spruce up boards 10 and 17. MMP printed the winners as new boards 10z and 17z. Some players lost their friggin minds that they had to buy these “new” boards prompting someone at MMP saying they will never do that again.

I have all my overlays cut out and in a binder so now I like playing scenarios with overlays. As a designer they are nice as you can get a bit closer to what you are modeling and as a player it’s great breaking up the terrain on older boards where you might already know the LOS without looking.
Being totally bored with Board 10 (and thinking "someone should use overlays to make this fun again) was the spark that lighted the scenario design journey for Chris Mazzei and myself.

The result was "Sting of the Italian Hornet", still one of our favourites.

We generally try to limit use of overlays to 2-3 per scenario....."Sting is an exception since we really intended to "work over" Board 10, which is not a matter of one or two overlays.
 

62nd Army

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You could make some 'multi-geo' 1/2 board Olays for those boards that already are designed that way; boards 54, 55, 69, 70 for instance. You could design historical chunks of terrain; think Aachen, Oosterbeek, Berlin Olays to our city boards. There are too many possibilities to imagine.

Don

I think this is an under used "format" for overlays and would love to see more.

Thanks
Joe
 

DWPetros

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Just this weekend, I spent several hours sketching several large overlays - similar to the large PTO (1,2,3,4,etc) overlays which are rectangular and easy to lay down. The hitch with the small overlays is that they:
  • are small and easily misplaced
  • fussy to place ('where do I put it..? 1 goes here, 2 goes there.. ')
  • they don't really change much in terms of terrain
So, it would be easy to drop in larger Overlays like this and they'd be easy to produce. After looking at all the boards, and while there are lots of ways to add new terrain overlays to many/most - there's a logical limit here. The logic of which boards should receive such overlays and what sort of overlays would make sense (at least to me!), involve dropping in terrain that would serve as a game objective. Here I mean a small village, hill mass, RR station, etc., vs. say, open ground. Because we have such a variety of boards now, having some fairly specific kinds of 'game objectives' (villages, etc.) seems right.
 

Tuomo

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Don - here's an idea (for free, even). Take any of the four sections separated by Streams on board 36 and turn it into a Village.

You're welcome.
 

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I wonder what if anything useful might be done with the river boards. Turn 'em into valleys? Swamps? Hills? Lakes?
 

DWPetros

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Don - here's an idea (for free, even). Take any of the four sections separated by Streams on board 36 and turn it into a Village.
You're welcome.
haha... OK, roger that Tom. PTO, eh? Will do and report back!
 

DWPetros

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Here's what i was thinning about. Board 69 & 70 (multi-geomorphic recall), have the ability to accept countless 1/2 board overlays that would dramatically change the layout (they can be flip-flopped in lots of ways).

Here's a couple of such a 1/2 board 'overlay' sketches that represent a typically strung-out Ukrainian village. Could even add a few more Hedges to simulate wooden fences. Simple, not a lot of jazz, but reflective of the plain village terrain in the east.

12026 12028
 

Robin Reeve

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How much the PTO half board overlays are used?
Not a lot.
I would rather suggest alternate boards, like 10z and 17z.
 

DWPetros

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How much the PTO half board overlays are used?
Not a lot.
I would rather suggest alternate boards, like 10z and 17z.
Based on looking at the scenarios that use PTO boards - you could say 'not much'.
This may be due to various reasons:
  • PTO is still not as popular for designers as Western/Russian front scenarios
  • the current PTO numbered overlays may not be all that versatile or interesting enough for designers to choose to use
I too would rather go with a 'z' type approach (10 / 17), but you also might ask - how often are those boards used? 'not much' I think. Why? Maybe they're also not that interesting to designers.

So, above all, having the right kind of terrain, whether large overlay or 'z' type is what's needed. I have a lot of ideas here.

I'm a big advocate of boards that look like real places - not places that show terrain that we never see in real life.. etc.). We have several boards that fit that category already - unfortunately, some that I've done. Some classic boards - ie. B3, doesn't look like anywhere I know, but it plays well (ie. there's some great scenarios that use it). I did (painted, not designed) board 47 - and it doesn't look like any real place either.

I would go as far as to say that most of our boards aren't that realistic. Many play well, but they're not that realistic looking. I hear little from players who even notice this. I just hope we can move towards more realistic looking boards... sigh

hey designers - what do you think??
 
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DWPetros

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In spite of having a lot of boards, it's surprising to me to notice how many very useful and importantly versatile boards would be useful. I would categorize the kinds of boards that would still be useful in this way (I've sketched about 250 of the following types as well as many others - 2 of which designs were just in the last WO release):

Generic - could be used in practically any place.
  • Open terrain with relatively few specific blobs of terrain
  • Villages
  • City
  • boards with themes: Rivers / gorges / streams / gullies
  • Hills
  • Woods
  • combo boards (Woods/open, Woods/fields, etc.)
Russian Front
  • villages (strung out - in ASL terms - 4-5 hexes wide / 15-20 hexes long with lots of fields
  • open terrain
  • balkas
France/Normandy
- villages (no, we don't have enough of them - need some really small hamlets

PTO
  • villages
  • hills
  • open grassland / kunai
  • beaches
Korea
  • plains and valley areas
  • villages / large towns
 
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