Overlays for AP4????

Cabin4clw

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Just received my AP4 from Larry Zoet. Opened it up to find...I need overlays. Where in the world do I get the ones that I need? I need the following and wondered what module or other place that they were first published:

G1
X22
Hd10
Hd5
Hd7
Hd6
Hd9
O2
X12
X15
X18
X19
Wd2
Og1

Any help would be great.

Why would MMP do that?

Joe
 

Chas Argent

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Attached is a list of all the maps and overlays in the system and where they came from.

Why would MMP do that?
LOL...do what? Use existing components in scenarios? ;) Sorry, we can't keep these designers under control.

FYI, for Raff's Dilemma, you can live without overlay G1; all it does is replace a building with Grain; simply make it Grain by SSR and there you go.
 

bennerc

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Just received my AP4 from Larry Zoet. Opened it up to find...I need overlays. Where in the world do I get the ones that I need?
Dude, your life sucks! You don't have the overlays, your dice blow, and your only face-to-face opponent is Mark DeVries. If I was you, I'd kill myself.
 

Cabin4clw

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Thank you so much for those kind words. It really made my night complete.

Chas, The reason that I brought this up is that people like me who don't have all the ASL stuff are frozen out of playing the scenarios with the overlays. I understand using all of the game components but what do you do if you don't have them?

Joe
 

Chas Argent

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I know Joe, but it's a fine line - some people might not have Italians, or certain maps, or whatever - hard to say where any line might be.

Hopefully most players will have buddies who can provide some of the gear they lack, at least until they can get their hands on it themselves.
 

Barryrk

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How about PDF overlays? Although I read on this forum that Tactiques hedge overlays are the same-haven't chhecked yet.
 

soggycrow

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LOL...do what? Use existing components in scenarios? ;) Sorry, we can't keep these designers under control.

.
It's not funny. You can keep designers under control. MMP should make this right. And in the future APs should provide all required overlays.
 

jwb3

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I'm not sure whether Soggycrow is being serious or not, and either way I don't agree with him... in general. But I'm quite dismayed by the news that the AP will require the Hedge overlays!

Given that Journal #4 is out of stock and out of print, there are going to be a fair number of people who are SOL as far as getting copies of these overlays, or at least, nicely printed copies. I probably have the .pdf Tactiques versions around here somewhere, and I know one or two of the people in my group got Journal #4, but that's it for me as far as these overlays go. Can we still play the scenarios that use them? Probably, with some effort, but that's not the point. The point is that there are ongoing problems with using any component that was only issued in limited print runs.

(And I don't mean "limited" as in "Sooner or later we will run out of core modules", I mean "limited" as in "We're only going to print enough of these for pre-orders plus x%".)

To me this is not an argument for restricting what the designers can use in their scenarios; rather, it is an argument for why the overlays should have been made available (again) in the AP itself. After all, it is the Normandy AP, and they are Normandy overlays! It might have made sense to include them even if there weren't any scenarios that called for them!

So, how many scenarios call for the Hedge overlays, anyway?

(It doesn't change the principles involved, mind you... but it can certainly change the aggravation level!)


John
 

soggycrow

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I'm not sure whether Soggycrow is being serious or not, and either way I don't agree with him... in general. But I'm quite dismayed by the news that the AP will require the Hedge overlays!
I was serious.:)
 

regularjoe

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Chas Argent

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It's not funny. You can keep designers under control. MMP should make this right. And in the future APs should provide all required overlays.
Make what right, exactly?

It's hard enough to get people to design and submit anything in the first place. Even with the previews I've been posting for APs 4 and 5 I get people complaining about length of this scenario or topic of that one, as if there were some huge library of scenarios we had to draw from. Start telling designers they are handcuffed by this or that constraint and watch the trickle turn into a drip.

Designers design what interests and excites them, there's no other reason to do it (trust me it ain't the money). If they want to use any/all available components in the system then that's the way it shall be.
 

swellington

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See i bought this here Crack cocaine but it wont fit in my pipe, and the pipe it does fit in is out of stock! oh well keep up the addiction and just buy!
 

pward

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It's not funny. You can keep designers under control. MMP should make this right. And in the future APs should provide all required overlays.
Just what I need, duplicates of overlays I probably haven't even cut out yet.

Make what right? The overlays are part of the modules or other APs where they were published.

What's next, asking for all the counters required to be included in each AP, and the maps as well just in case?
 
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See i bought this here Crack cocaine but it wont fit in my pipe, and the pipe it does fit in is out of stock! oh well keep up the addiction and just buy!
OR.....Don't buy the stuff when it becomes available (perhaps for a LIMITED time in the case of Action Packs) so you can complain in five years that you can no longer get the AP 4, and you really need that board 53 to play a scenario in AP 7.
My view is: if you want to play all, or most, of the ASL scenarios then you had better suck it up and buy what is available when it first comes out because you are gonna need it at some point down the road. If you don't want to get that involved, then buy the starter kits and/or Beyond Valor, which can stand alone and which don't require committments of time and resources, and be happy with a small investment and small opportunities and options for playing ASL. You can't have it both ways, folks!
 

Bret Hildebran

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Couldn't an enterprising individual boot up VASL and just print the overlays from there? A little experimenting with sizing and you're done...
 

Cabin4clw

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OR.....Don't buy the stuff when it becomes available (perhaps for a LIMITED time in the case of Action Packs) so you can complain in five years that you can no longer get the AP 4, and you really need that board 53 to play a scenario in AP 7.
My view is: if you want to play all, or most, of the ASL scenarios then you had better suck it up and buy what is available when it first comes out because you are gonna need it at some point down the road. If you don't want to get that involved, then buy the starter kits and/or Beyond Valor, which can stand alone and which don't require committments of time and resources, and be happy with a small investment and small opportunities and options for playing ASL. You can't have it both ways, folks!
Here's the problem that I have with this. If you have gotten in to ASL in the last few years when some products are no longer available, or when the item first comes out, you're done.

Do I want to put a lot of money into ASL-sure for the right things. I have Yanks, Paratroopers, BV and a number of CH titles that deal with the paratroopers. That's why I was excited about getting AP4. Paras and Normandy. To me that's great.

Joe
 
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Here's the problem that I have with this. If you have gotten in to ASL in the last few years when some products are no longer available, or when the item first comes out, you're done.

Do I want to put a lot of money into ASL-sure for the right things. I have Yanks, Paratroopers, BV and a number of CH titles that deal with the paratroopers. That's why I was excited about getting AP4. Paras and Normandy. To me that's great.

Joe
I'm not sure where your comments are going. These games are somewhat like "art". in that they are produced for a very small audience, and in limited numbers. Whining about MMP not making all their old products available to every person who comes along at a later date and decides he wants to collect them is like whining that Tiffany's won't make you a new copy of a lamp they produced in limited quantities back in 1905. Sorry, but it's not their fault, or concern, if you weren't there when it was readily available.
Now, if you really want that item you go out and find it for sale somewhere (yes, at a somewhat inflated price) or you stop crying and forget about it.

In your case it sounds as if you may only be interested in the American battles in Europe (based on your list of purchases so far) and so you may have just about everything that is really practical to pursue. Sure you may want some of the Journals or AP's from before you started playing/collecting but will you really be happy with paying high prices for a product which only contains two or three American scenarios out of a dozen in that package? Possibly not, and so there isn't much reason to actively seek more ASL products. And if you wish to limit your playing interests, that's fine. It means one less person bidding for those limited quantities, which puts less pressure on the rest of the collectors.

If you are only interested in the paratroopers, be happy with what you have, and enjoy playing that aspect of ASL.
 

DaveStory

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I buy every MMP product expecting to get a few duds. When a designer specifically wants a building here or a woods not-there, you wonder just how much he is dictating tactics to you.

Just forgetaboutit. Once you see some of that 'X1' or 'Wd4' text on the scenario map depiction, head for higher ground and find a different scenario.
 

Chas Argent

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I buy every MMP product expecting to get a few duds. When a designer specifically wants a building here or a woods not-there, you wonder just how much he is dictating tactics to you.
Or maybe he's just trying to breathe new life into an old board.
 
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