Operation Watchtower

[Dr. Brian]

After all these years ... I've finally decided to organize my OW counters ... and I have found that the Japanese counters are not the same color as the entire Jap OOB.

Was this ever rectified in a subsequent publication with errata counters? I'm trying to fill in the missing blanks in my OOB, and any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Doc

 

[jrv]

Issues with color mismatches are not errata in general. Getting good color matches is very difficult. If you have a large cross-section of German counters, for instance, you will see a wide variety of colors. And that is before you factor in fading from light exposure.

JR

 

[Paul M. Weir]

My Soviets have varied from constipated turd brown to fox reddish brown to nearly as light as my British. My Japanese have orange yellow to lemon yellow. The only counters that I replaced were most of the 1st SS Pansy Division that came with KGP or some of my original Germans that have gone to scummy faded blue grey with age and finger grease.

 

[Dr. Brian]

Hmmm .... I never had a problem like this before.... as Paul said ... my Japanese are Lemon Yellow ... which are the only ones out of sync in the entire OOB. Which kind of stinks since the pantone value for the Japanese is 115 ... so I wonder why they used a different value than 115.

So let me follow up then ... do you include all of them in your same storage container, or did you put them to the side?

 

[jrv]

Hmmm .... I never had a problem like this before.... as Paul said ... my Japanese are Lemon Yellow ... which are the only ones out of sync in the entire OOB. Which kind of stinks since the pantone value for the Japanese is 115 ... so I wonder why they used a different value than 115.

So let me follow up then ... do you include all of them in your same storage container, or did you put them to the side?

I assume you mean that the pantone value used by vasl is 115. I don't know that Avalon Hill/MMP ever published a color definition. Even if they did, it's hard to reproduce colors even when you know what color you want.

I do not separate my counters by color. Discrimination is abhorrent to me.

JR

 

[Dr. Brian]

The VASL RBG value is 255 219 0. Pantone claims to be the visual standard ... and realistically is. Once you have the value, it's not that hard. Take a new car lot filled with Red Jeeps. They all match. It's how detailed the manufacturer is willing to be.

<<I do not separate my counters by color. Discrimination is abhorrent to me.>>
Good God man! Are you implying you put your ASL counters into a single box ... unorganized!!! That's just crazy! Of course, tear down time is minimal! LOL

 

[jrv]

<<I do not separate my counters by color. Discrimination is abhorrent to me.>>
Good God man! Are you implying you put your ASL counters into a single box ... unorganized!!! That's just crazy! Of course, tear down time is minimal! LOL

Actually I mix several nationalities together. I have three main MMC boxes, "Axis" (German, Japanese, Italian, & an odd case, Partisan), "Allied" (American, British, and Allied Minor) and an "overflow" (Soviet, Chinese, Axis Minor, French, Finn). All first lines are stored together, all elite, etc, with different kinds (box vs. circle vs. plain) broken out in different bins. All SMC together by type. Vehicles are axis and allies boxes by vehicle note number. Guns by type, broken down by caliber where necessary. SW by type, broken into axis and allies where necessary. You find the bin that has the type of thing you are looking for and pull by color. There are some odd cases, e.g. Finnish & Partisan leaders are stored separately, but that is because they are easy to mix up with leaders of other nationalities (Finns formerly with Germans and now with Italians, Partisans with Soviets). It wouldn't do to have a partisan leader leading a Soviet force. Stalin would have me shot.

There have been players in the past that "organized" their counters into one big bag. I have never done that.

JR

 

[Bob Walters]

There is a solution! You can replace your old dirty worn out ugly counters with the spiffy new awesome counters from Footsteps! (Unfortunately, this will not work for the Japanese as he does not have them for pre-order as yet but it works for everything else)
http://www.brokenground.design/
http://www.brokenground.design/p/broken-ground-designs-counter-art_76.html

 

[Paul M. Weir]

With the exception of the 1st SS Pansy division (though I retained the Pz IV J from KGP), I kept all my counters.

However I must explain my collection. I bought ASL right from the start and when AH was sliding down the drain I bought multiple duplicates from retail stores, eg 4 x BV v1, WoA, 3 x CdG, 2 x Y v1, CoB, GH, DB, AoO, HL, TLH, Part, Para. This was because I found the 6 vehicle, 4 gun maximum too limiting for my DYO stuff as well as a certain "AH dying, no more ASL, panic, Aghhh, buy, buy" moment. So currently I have, for the most part, enough 5/8" counters and a surplus of 1/2" for my needs. At some stage I will go through my really worn 1/2" and replace them with the unpunched 1/2" that have accumulated over the years.

But otherwise I ignore minor colour variations as that does not bother me too much, misaligned cutting is another matter. The German KGP stuff annoyed me as not only were they different but were so far from the usual German powder blue to really aggravate me. Wear over the years has made more a difference than initial printing. I keep my counters stacked in their compartments in alphabetic order as it enables me to know when, say, MMC "I" is missing and as a result in many cases MMC "A" is almost white from use while MMC "Z" is almost pristine from within the same purchased batch of counters.

 

[witchbottles]

I assume you mean that the pantone value used by vasl is 115. I don't know that Avalon Hill/MMP ever published a color definition. Even if they did, it's hard to reproduce colors even when you know what color you want.

I do not separate my counters by color. Discrimination is abhorrent to me.

JR

No, you only forcibly circumcise them all against their own preferences on the matter- you corner-cutting butcher..... I bet you save all those cardboard foreskins, too, don't you

 

[witchbottles]

The VASL RBG value is 255 219 0. Pantone claims to be the visual standard ... and realistically is. Once you have the value, it's not that hard. Take a new car lot filled with Red Jeeps. They all match. It's how detailed the manufacturer is willing to be.

<<I do not separate my counters by color. Discrimination is abhorrent to me.>>
Good God man! Are you implying you put your ASL counters into a single box ... unorganized!!! That's just crazy! Of course, tear down time is minimal! LOL

As having been someone who once worked in a Quality Control position for a custom Business Check printing company - color mistakes can (and do) happen regularly at the printers, not involving the designer's artwork at all - simple transcription error onto the silver matrix print plates.

Given the cost of printing, the huge lag time for custom jobs such as the hundreds of counter sheets for just say, Rising Sun, if the order was visible and otherwise clear of errata - I would not expect a small operation to turn it down and re-order the entire run because the coloration was one shade lighter or darker than envisioned by the art designer.

YMMV of course.

 

[witchbottles]

With the exception of the 1st SS Pansy division (though I retained the Pz IV J from KGP), I kept all my counters.

However I must explain my collection. I bought ASL right from the start and when AH was sliding down the drain I bought multiple duplicates from retail stores, eg 4 x BV v1, WoA, 3 x CdG, 2 x Y v1, CoB, GH, DB, AoO, HL, TLH, Part, Para. This was because I found the 6 vehicle, 4 gun maximum too limiting for my DYO stuff as well as a certain "AH dying, no more ASL, panic, Aghhh, buy, buy" moment. So currently I have, for the most part, enough 5/8" counters and a surplus of 1/2" for my needs. At some stage I will go through my really worn 1/2" and replace them with the unpunched 1/2" that have accumulated over the years.

But otherwise I ignore minor colour variations as that does not bother me too much, misaligned cutting is another matter. The German KGP stuff annoyed me as not only were they different but were so far from the usual German powder blue to really aggravate me. Wear over the years has made more a difference than initial printing. I keep my counters stacked in their compartments in alphabetic order as it enables me to know when, say, MMC "I" is missing and as a result in many cases MMC "A" is almost white from use while MMC "Z" is almost pristine from within the same purchased batch of counters.

There is nothing wrong with Peiper's purple Panzies---- nothing. Further, if you keep them , you got an extra set of matched AFVs and acquisition counters not otherwise available.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

It's not that they were purple that was the problem, just the over the top mismatch. I can't remember, but I think I kept the ACQ but not the "?" counters. The extra Pz IV were a toss up, I kept the Js but replaced the Hs with those in PB. The 838 SS squads were replaced in DB (I think?) and pretty soon I had more than enough.

 

[jrv]

No, you only forcibly circumcise them all against their own preferences on the matter- you corner-cutting butcher..... I bet you save all those cardboard foreskins, too, don't you

I don't clip my counters. It leaves them crippled.

JR

 

[Brian W]

I don't clip my counters. It leaves them crippled.

You know, they have a pill for that now; and, it's all mental anyway as the clipping doesn't affect performance at all.

 

[jrv]

You know, they have a pill for that now; and, it's all mental anyway as the clipping doesn't affect performance at all.

I've seen clipped counters that couldn't Advance vs. Difficult Terrain where an unclipped counter would have made it in the MPh. I heard that one of the TPPs is working on prosthetic corners.

JR

 

[witchbottles]

I've seen clipped counters that couldn't Advance vs. Difficult Terrain where an unclipped counter would have made it in the MPh. I heard that one of the TPPs is working on prosthetic corners.

JR

something like these maybe?? http://www.neuticles.com/petowners.php

 

[MAS01]

something like these maybe?? http://www.neuticles.com/petowners.php

I can now say "I've seen it all"!