Operation : Schmidt

Paul M. Weir

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I have some sympathy with Scott's comment re MGs. I have nothing to do with BFP other than some advice as to what some more obscure bits of kit might look like in ASL, so I don't know exactly what comes in OS. However given the time and location there is only 2 sources of MGs, the US and German. The only US MG not covered by official counters is the M1919A6, a 'light' MG version of the M1919, the US 4-10 MMG. The Germans may have some WW1 leftover water cooled MG as part of the Westwall fortifications and some Czech ZB-26 or 30, but most MG would be the standard MG-34 or 42.

PiF came with such a variety of MG as that was the historical situation. The Poles had standardised on the BAR and a version of the Browning water cooled MG but still had many WW1 relics from France, Germany and Russia. The Germans in '39 had standardised on the MG-34 but had a severe shortage of them. As a result fortress and 2nd+ wave divisions still used WW1 water cooled as their heavy MG. Many, many units used the Czech ZB-26/ZB-30 as their LMG, indeed it seems to have been the main LMG of the Waffen SS right up to and including France. Some unfortunates were using the LMG kludge versions of the WW1 water cooled MG. As the war progressed such weapons were increasingly seen only in fortress, anti-partisan and similar low grade, low mobility units. From discussion with another forumite it appears that even Wiking (5th SS) had a good number of substitute standard MG as late as '44.

In the end is rooting for an unusual MG all that different than rooting for a SdKfz 251/21? Maybe it's just that you don't expect to have to look for a special MG whilst you likely expect something unusual in 5/16". I agree about storage, I keep my BFP stuff separate. Simply because unless I am playing a BFP scenario (or a DYO), I don't need to even consider BFP counters and they do look different.
 

rreinesch

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Great CG though, I might add!!!

Question - since I have probably lost my mind - what's the "11" about? On the crew counters. Battlefield Integrity?
If you look in the system, for some reason when crew counters were originally ID'd, they used numbers instead of letters. BV comes with 10 German crews, so we just picked up the ID sequencing at '11'.
 

rreinesch

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I guess I would just have to agree with Paul that perhaps the best way to store BFP counters is separately from the core system counters. I personally put them in with all of the rest of my counters, but whatever works for each individual.
 

volgaG68

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I agree about storage, I keep my BFP stuff separate. Simply because unless I am playing a BFP scenario (or a DYO), I don't need to even consider BFP counters and they do look different.
The only BFP unit counters I co-mingle with others are their Assault Engineers. They have their own spot in my 'official' Planos. I use them in any published scenario that requires me to remember that certain class squads are AE. The great artwork on them makes this an even easier decision!
 

Gunner Scott

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The problem is, if you go to tourneys that include bfp stuff, that means you have to lug along extra planos (or what ever) to cover the OB requirements for those bfp scenarios. I really have no desire anymore to lug around a steamer trunk full of ASL gear anymore. Heck my plan for ASLOK is to just bring my Russians, Germans, Americans and Brits, official boards, rules and what ever else I need at the bare minimum.
 

Paul M. Weir

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The only BFP unit counters I co-mingle with others are their Assault Engineers. They have their own spot in my 'official' Planos. I use them in any published scenario that requires me to remember that certain class squads are AE. The great artwork on them makes this an even easier decision!
Good point about the AE. In my case, a solo player, I rarely have enough AE in a scenario that I can't remember and MMP have produced some AE for EF forces, which is my theatre of interest. In my DYO I tend to be sparing with AE as they were not all that really common.
 

william.stoppel

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The problem is, if you go to tourneys that include bfp stuff, that means you have to lug along extra planos (or what ever) to cover the OB requirements for those bfp scenarios. I really have no desire anymore to lug around a steamer trunk full of ASL gear anymore. Heck my plan for ASLOK is to just bring my Russians, Germans, Americans and Brits, official boards, rules and what ever else I need at the bare minimum.
Don't forget your DASL boards Scott!
 

nebel

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PiF came with such a variety of MG as that was the historical situation.
PiF was complete overkill for MG counter types. 7 range vs 6 range make no difference for the average scenario. As a consumer I am willing to sacrifice this 'reality' for the sake of a lower price and less pain finding counters...
 

hongkongwargamer

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I think getting complete sets of counters in "Winter Camo" or "Brick Red" or "Dutch Trucks" IS overkill. It just goes to say different strokes for different folks.

I appreciate the full scale, detailed job that BFP has always done. Either give me a good solid product or nothing at all. I am not going to pay for a half baked attention deprived product to save a few bucks.

So I am very happy to playtest. I am happy to pay for BFP's products (heck, I usually pay for 2 each).

BFP ROCKS!! Stay Awesome folks

Rgds Jack
 
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zgrose

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PiF was complete overkill for MG counter types. 7 range vs 6 range make no difference for the average scenario. As a consumer I am willing to sacrifice this 'reality' for the sake of a lower price and less pain finding counters...
Hey, lets not single out BFP here. There are probably too many MMP vehicle variants that should've been DFE'd away, too.
 

Hardrada

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I am currently reading "the battle for Hurtgen Forest" from M.Charles Whiting (a british point of view which is rather critical in fact).
Truly an awful battle (although it must be hard to find a nice one...).
Thank you for this future game about this under-covered subject.
 

sunoftzu

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I think getting complete sets of counters in "Winter Camo" or "Brick Red" or "Dutch Trucks" IS overkill. It just goes to say different strokes for different folks.
Here's an easy solution for those pieces that will likely never get used:

1/ Grab a sealable bag.
2/ Label the bag "unused ASL pieces".
3/ Put the pieces you're not going to use in the bag.

Works for me......

John.
 

clubby

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This weekend in a FtF game, I was asked three times where these "cool" counters came from (ADV Fire, Burning Wreck, Turn markers for every possible game). All three times the answer was the same "They came in (insert Bounding Fire product here)."
 

Paolo Cariolato

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It looks like OS will have 2.5 counter sheets (2x1/2" sheets and 0.5x5/8" sheet),
View attachment 2560 View attachment 2561 View attachment 2562 View attachment 2559
There really isn't that much that is 'new' from a counter standpoint with this. Actually most of the counters are associated with the CG. We have to make the assumption that folks have the basics (just a single copy of BV, Yanks) in playing the scenarios/CG. Given the counter density on the CG, we had no choice but to supplement those core counter sets. For example, if one were to buy all the possible German infantry RGs, we'd be looking at a possible 96 German 467s on the map. Given that BV only gives you 26, you can see the issue. If you already have a couple copies of BV, or supplements from other HASLs, then you probably won't need to punch any of these out. But if someone can't play the CG because there aren't enough counters, that's a problem.
Rick

I think this is a most unfortunate decision from BFP, your customer base is formed by veteran ASLer with access to multiple copies of BV and YANKS and/or official historical modules, SK modules, journals and plenty of sources for official "basic" counters. There was no need for more countersheets of such counters.
Even more because you perfectly know that those few people that will embark themself in the CG are the hardcore cream of your customer base and THOSE surely will have no need for more 467 or 228 crew which already own in droves.

I own all BFP modules, which I duly bought as soon as they were avilable. I'm not so sure this time.
Price has never been an issue for me even if those dollars were to pay for very dubtful useful german MGs or russian tanks.
This time I will closely scrutinize the final price.
With this counters choice BFP has taken a path which I don't like and I won't support.

my 2c
 
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hongkongwargamer

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What?

Of course not. Part of the customer base might have multiple copies of BVs and Yanks but that is certainly not an accurate description of the community that I know.

Then again, the community I know are players, not hoarders.

BFP, we are thankful for you kind consideration, that purchases of your product does not necessitate purchases of extra modules.

Keep up the good work!

PS .. "hardcore cream" .. bleeeeeeeaaahh
 
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