Operation Ice Picket

Gunner98

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Hello all,
I have attached my first moderatly successful attempt at design:eek: It is a small part in a major operation that I have in mind. Classic WW3 start up in 94, massive Soviet hords etc etc, NATO caught flat footed. This scenario will be #3 or 4 in the series eventualy:laugh: and represents minor actions in preparation for the big push. NATO is scrambling to reinforce Jan Mayan Island while the Soviets have just inserted some Spetznatz supported by Sub and minor surface forces to conduct recce and some disruption. Its not the most action packed scenario but hopefully quick and interesting. Would apprecate any feedback you may have - and a great thanks to Herman who has been helping me allong with this one for a week or so now.

Bart
 

Herman Hum

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Gave this a test run as NATO. Some observations:

1) You might want to do a spell check. This is easy to accomplish. Under the Edit Menu, there is a Export Text Data command. You export the orders to an *.SCT file that can then be opened by a text editor like Word for a Spell check.

I think that some errors are:

LHA Sipan s/b Saipan
SSN Olimpia s/b Olympia

2) In your orders, there is a sub assigned to your command for 36 hrs, but game is only 24 hrs. It is not impossible, but can be a bit confusing.

3) You have locked all the RefPts for NATO. This means that then you play as NATO, you get to see all the refPts even though they are unnecessary. In fact, seeing where the designer placed his RefPts can be detrimental. You are seeing where the designer wants your units to go and this can give away any surprises to a player. I suggest that you only Lock those refPts that player absolutely needs to see.

4) Where is Point Oscar? It is mentioned in the orders, but I would have had no idea where that was without some RefPts. If you use RefPts, you might re-name some of the OSCAR. This can be done by selecting the RefPt and then Shift+NumPad7.

5) There is one Orion in the air with Mk46 Mod2 and others armed with Barracuda. In fact, you have quite the mix of weapons. Some helos with Mk46 Mod2, some with Mod5, and some with Barracuda. I think that some consistency would be good. Most units will probably be using the same model of weapon. This applies to the helos on your PhibRon, too.

6) I liked the Formation Patrol Zones set out for your PhibRon. However, they might be a tad too close. I ran across a Sierra who fired two Type 65-76 torps. One killed a frigate and the other one came damn close to Wasp. Nice job. :)

7) There is no re-load ammo on Keflavik for the Orions

8) This is a pretty good scen. I started off well and caught a sub right near the PhibRon. Killed a Charlie before she got to fire and then lost Drum to something without detecting the firing sub! Excellent. :)

The SSGN Echo fires right away and turns on radar because you have her on Ground strike. Whenever you have a sub on a Strike mission, they always go to Periscope depth and turn on their radar. IMO, this sucks because the radar is usually what gives the sub's location.

You might like to try this:

a) Create the same Land Strike mission, but have it delayed for 25hrs. (1 hr past game duration)
b) Put the SSGN on that mission and then plot a course for it to approach Jan Mayen at shallow/periscope depth
c) Hopefully, when she gets to shallow depth, she will fire her SSMs, but she won't go to Periscope depth and turn on her radar (since her mission has not yet activated). I haven't tested it, but this might keep her a bit more stealthy. After she fired, my Sentry quickly detected her radar.

9) The SSMs come in 1 at a time. :( The Norwegian company easily shoots them all down. There's may not be much you can do about it.

10) After killing four subs, I was awarded victory (7hrs). I checked your ViConds and it looks like you set them up so that the player must

a) arrive off of Jan Mayen, and
b) kill four subs

I don't know what to tell you. They look as though they are set up correctly and that both ViConds must be fulfilled. Unfortunately, they seem to evaluate as an "Either/Or" condition. I can only suggest to check them out with the 3.9.0 SE when the patch is released to see if it is fixed by then. As yet, I have no idea how to get around this problem.

Good job. Thanks for sharing it. :cool:
 
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Herman Hum

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10) After killing four subs, I was awarded victory (7hrs). I checked your ViConds and it looks like you set them up so that the player must

a) arrive off of Jan Mayen, and
b) kill four subs

I don't know what to tell you. They look as though they are set up correctly and that both ViConds must be fulfilled. Unfortunately, they seem to evaluate as an "Either/Or" condition. I can only suggest to check them out with the 3.9.0 SE when the patch is released to see if it is fixed by then. As yet, I have no idea how to get around this problem.
Okay, I think I found the correct way to implement the "AND" condition.

1) Create the top level Composite ViCond
2) Go down one level and create a second Composite ViCond so that it is nestled under the first one.
3) Within this ViCond, set the number of conditions at 2
4) Then place your "OnStation" and "Kill 4 Subs" ViCond underneath the second Composite ViCond.
5) After placing the two ViConds, double-check and make sure that the "Number of ViConds" box has a two in it. (I had to go back and edit it since it didn't appear to stick the first time.)

You can check with the Resign command in the SE to see if they now evaluate with an "AND" connector.
 

Herman Hum

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Played this one as the Russians, too. Some of the same things like Locked RefPts apply.

1) It was pretty challenging with the subs except for a couple of game bugs. I had an unarmed trawler tag the PhibRon, but because it was unarmed, the stupid AI would not attack it. There's not much that you can do about this behavior unless AGSI decides to fix it. The SSV near Iceland was attacked and killed because it was armed with MGs. You might consider replacing the unarmed trawler with such a unit just to provoke an attack on it.

Unarmed units not engaged

Unarmed units will not be engaged by AI units (sub or ship) on Plotted mission. This is due to the fact that the targets pose no 'threat' to the AI unit thus elicits no response. Once weapons are added to the targets, they are immediately attacked.​

2) One SSN Victor was able to get in close proximity before firing. I suspect that it was due to another game bug because there was an Orion all over her, but she was not fired upon until she first fired her own torpedoes at the PhibRon.

Unknown Sub contacts not attacked

Unknown submarine contacts no longer attacked unless positively identified as hostile.​

AGSI claims that this bug is fixed for upcoming Patch 3.9.0. I have not bothered to check on the veracity of that claim.

I think that this game could be challenging as an MP match.
 

Gunner98

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Thanks Herman, Have fixed many of the points you note and am playing through just to check. Question - were the Spetz units effective in disrupting or at least distracting your movement into JM? I lost a P-3 because he got too close to the Bal'zam near Iceland - its got more than just MGs... should have been paying more attention since I knew it was there...

Bart
 

Herman Hum

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I accidentally sent the Harriers from the PhibRon in early. (I thought they were the ones I was supposed to ferry to Jan Mayen.)

They detected the Spetsnaz units on IR long before they were a threat. The Spetsnaz did kill one of the two Hercules when it tried to launch. Those were the two that were in the air at the start of the game.

Either a Sentry or the Orion confirmed the identity of the Balzam from long range. They never bothered to close with her since she was no threat to any of my ships and I didn't want to waste any long-range ordnance on her.
 

Gunner98

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Ok,
Have cleaned up many of the points Herman brought out - thanks again. This one should be cleaner and a bit more of a challange. The subs are more stealthy and a couple of other minor changes. Still have a couple of issues but I think they are game related:(:

-You get a nice vidio of an A4 taking off linked with Super Stalions!!:D
-some of the AV-8's get locked into a 'ready in 0:00' for some hours then come to life :crosseye:
-When you deliver the loads to JM, the A/C will reload the troops, and you can reset to minimal but they will take the same time to ready as if they were loading troops :mad:
-In one run through, I was first able to land Hurcs at JM, then unable to, and then able to again - I donno??:(

Enjoy and don't be shy about the feedback.

Bart
 

Herman Hum

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There's not much that can be done with the video. Perhaps there was a Stallion taking off at the same time? ;)

Your AV-8s situation is interesting. There was a situation whereby planes got stuck at 0:00 ready time and would not launch. It is good to see that they do launch, in the end, but disturbing that they did not launch right away. All you can do is check when 3.9.0 is out to see if this behaviour persists.

The problem of the troop loadout automatically re-loading is just how the game operates. Once it is assigned a loadout, it is going to need the entire ready time and there is currently no way to change it. It has been up on some wish lists for a change, but does not appear to be a very high priority. I agree with you that if you change a loadout to another with a faster ready time, the new time should be adopted.

I was told that the situation of the Hercules might be explained this way. Every hangar/air base facility has a set capacity for holding aircraft. They get filled up an a certain order. For example, on an aircraft carrier, there may be some spaces for Medium a/c and some for Small a/c. If the Medium slots get filled up first by small a/c, then only small a/c can land even though only small a/c currently occupy the Medium a/c slots. They don't get shifted around.

I have DL'd your v2 and there appears to be another anomaly aboard the LHA Saipan. There are 6 helos (3x SH-60B and 3x SH-60F) that are currently on "Plotted" mission. I don't think that they will be able to fly. If the player is NATO, it is no problem because all missions re-set when he starts the game. The problem is for the AI and that it may not be able to use the planes.

It's a real PiTA to fix, too. I tested this and it can be fixed.

1) Detach the ship from the Group
2) Hit Unassign to take it off the mission
3) Hit F3 and plot a path for the ship
4) Hit Unassign to take it off the mission
5) Helos should now all be unassigned
6) Re-join it to the group
7) It is vital to note that the helos that launched from the ship for ASW patrols have now been cancelled. You need to re-assign the ASW patrol zones.
8) Also, take note of this reported issue:
Formation air patrols cancelled by Edit A/C function

Formation air patrols cancelled by use Edit A/C function on the launching platform or hangar.​

If you edited any of the a/c on any of your ships, the PZs still appear in the formation editor, but they won't launch. This is supposedly fixed in 390, but there is no confirmation, as yet.
 

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Hi Gunner,

I tried your v2 from the NATO side.

At game start I was concerned with the limited air-defence. If my Phibron was the Northern-most NATO group; would bombers come looking? So I maintained three 2-harrier CAPs supported by the Sentry; all the while wondering where the vaunted F15s were. Once I had my Sentry and Orians operating, I could see there was no immediate threat. I detected two AGIs, which I killed with Sea Cobra's (figuring they had enough time to reload before they had to ferry to JM). I managed to shoot down all the Shaddock missiles, and kept searching for the ship they must have been fired from; eventually I decided it must have been a sub.

Subs started to appear in the PIM of the phibrons and my two SSNs were an effective screen. Drum detected a torpedo launch, fired back and avaded; the russians were not so lucky. Helicopters, P3s and subs proved effective in ASW, though sometimes a sub-contact came close - after the game these prove to be biologics.

I detected a lone Russian destroyer, and needed 6 Harriers to kill her. This left me with little ready ASuW planes if another ship was close but the P3s had sanitized the ara by now.

The Norwegian C130s landed without incident, but when I took off again with one C130 to make room for the airlift it was shot down. Hariers detected the Spetznatz and I used Harriers armed with -65Bs and even strafing to kill them. The strafing runs cost me 4 Harriers which I'd forgotten to force to come in high above the MANPADs.
The Harrier airlift proceeded but I waited with the C130 airlift untill I could safely evacuate the C130s on JM. My Phibron reached the target area and the helo's ferried to JM (well all but one Sea Cobra which had been shot down my an IGI). In the middle of this I was awarded victory.

Vicconds seemed to be limited to getting the phibs to station and killing four subs. Its hard to design vicconds to verify that the player actually does the airlift correctly; so this may be all thats needed - though you could put in another one to kill the spetznatz.

I think its a nice scen - quite innovative with the spetznatz interfering with takeoff (interestingly, planes taking off rise slowly from the ground and are vulnerable to ground fire, but planes landing go instantly from vHigh to nil and are safe!). Oh, I really liked the way you wrote the orders - somewhat of a puzzle! It might be good to add some sentences to 'clarify victory conditions'.

It might be nice to suggest in the orders than Command feels Backfire bombers have not yet reached readiness; or even to put in a Bear or something to force the player to keep patrolling for air attacks.

Otherwise a very good first scen, I look forward to the rest in this series!!
 
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Herman Hum

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Had a chance to run the v2 scenario a second time as the Russians.

In the original scenario, you wanted the player to accomplish all four ViConds in order to achieve victory. Now, I managed to reach victory by completing 3 out of the four possible. It works just fine as it currently stands. Just curious if this is intentional?
 

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Herman,
Yes, I changed it to three of the four victory conditions as I felt that the Soviet needed a bit of a break.

Freek,
Was attempting to limit the scope by not using the F-15s and bombers. A line in the orders to give the player a clue is a good idea - Perhaps a Bear F or J lurking around just out of reach of the Harriers.
Still have a problem with the Kashin DDG, it completes its mission and seems to be relativly effective at knocking out one or two of the AvGas sites but then it just sits there!! It should be retiring eastward at flank speed once its missiles are launched but cannot figure out how to do that.
I was playing around with the victory conditions for the airlift but gave up. Perhaps I will re-try now that I understand them better. Something like 'station xx Cobra etc in a poly over JM for 2 min'? Don't know if that will work for each type. A VC for killing the Spetz might work, I didn't include it originaly as I saw it a s part of the job and not the aim of the mission - but it would be a good indicator.

Thanks again.
 

Herman Hum

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Still have a problem with the Kashin DDG, it completes its mission and seems to be relativly effective at knocking out one or two of the AvGas sites but then it just sits there!! It should be retiring eastward at flank speed once its missiles are launched but cannot figure out how to do that.
You might try something like the sub-launched SLCM strike you have the Echo SSGN on. I know that it works in H3, but it might not work in ANW. Create a 25hr delayed ground strike then plot the course for the DDG to approach the island. Once in range, she will fire her missiles then follow the plotted course and run like hell. I tried it out and it seems to work. The only problem was that the ship fired her SSMs at the first available target which happened to be the ground unit in the north.
 

Gunner98

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I could change the victory condition to destroy the radar - a bit of the tail wagging the dog but the idea of the DDG was simply to add some variety and keep the player(s) busy. Will play around with it - I don't like the idea of an important surface unit just sitting there bobing about waiting to get sunk.

Bart
 

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I sank it before it got into SSM range of JM.

Be carefull with a viccond of 'station xxx helo's over JM'; it means all these helo's must be on station at the same time and you cannot predict the group size the player will use in the Ferry mission.
I'd suggest a viccond to station 1 AH for 1 minute in a small box over the airbase and another viccond for 1 UH.

Freek
 

Herman Hum

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I'd suggest a viccond to station 1 AH for 1 minute in a small box over the airbase and another viccond for 1 UH.
Why make the duration of a minute? I would suggest that it just require the AH to 'break the box' with a 0 duration requirement especially since having a small box might mean that the AH will fly through it and land before being able to fulfill the ViCond.

I have also run into a small problem of time compression. If there is a very small box and the time compression is high (1:15min or 1:30min), I have seen aircraft 'skip' right through the box and land without ever triggering the ViCond because the game did not make a calculation that resulted in the aircraft being within the polygon. It shouldn't be a big problem, but it might be something to consider when dealing with very small ViCond polygons.
 

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I bow to the master ;)

I agree; actually did not realise a 0 minute viccond works; you play and learn...!

But again Gunner, don't feel you have to make any changes, it was a pleasure to play your scen and it was remarkable to have a v2 in which basically everything works!

Freek
 

Gunner98

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Freek,
Thanks but in reality it is about version 5 since Herman had a couple of goes at it before I posted, newby jitters I guess. :OHNO:

I have not tampered with the victory conditions, too much tempting fate I think. I have re-positioned the DDG and assigned it to the same mission as the SSGN so we will see how that works. Have removed the 'plotted' aircraft and went back over the formation patrols. Added a line to the situation paragraph of NATO orders, calming the concern over LRBmrs. My thougth of puting a Bear F or J was ill concieved since there are no bases and they will not hang around for the 24hrs of the game.:)

Attached is the version that should be uploaded into the collection.

Herman, I will get you the battleset text later this evening. Now to work on the next one: H-Hour, very short and sharp, hopefully exciting.

Bart
 

Herman Hum

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Ed and I met up for our weekly ANW match. This week, we elected to try out Bart Gauvin's first scenario production, Ice Picket, made with the Harpoon community's favourite database, the PlayersDB.



I played the Soviets while Ed commanded the NATO forces. My orders were to prevent NATO from reinforcing the Jan Mayen Island outpost with a PhibRon.

Right away, one of my spy trawlers [AGI] picked up radar transmissions and one of my Victor III subs detected the distinct acoustic signatures of Tarawa-class and Wasp-class vessels and moved in to investigate. The AGI soon spotted a SH-2 SeaSprite helo coming over to give her a look. The pilot was very cagy and came in slowly while the AGI had trained a pair of Gremlin SAMs tracking her all the time. Closer, and closer, she came until she was just outside of maximum range. Crap. She fingered the AGI, so there was no further need for stealth. She went to flank speed and raced to nail down the position of the enemy PhibRon.

Soon enough, a pair of AH-1 SeaCobras came in on an attack run to fire Hellfire missiles. However, they got too close and one was brought down by a Gremlin. The AGI was burning furiously and listing, but still afloat and she had confirmation of the course and speed for the PhibRon. This was transmitted to SubSquadron 31 and the nearest Victor III calculated an intercept course. Unfortunately, the PhibRon was moving at a very high rate (24kts!) so there was no chance of the SSN catching it without moving at a high speed, herself. Captain Ivanov ordered the sub to full speed (23kts) and hoped that he would survive long enough to deliver his attack.

Once she transmitted her data, the AGI had outlived her purpose. When two Harriers from the PhibRon came to finish her off, she was determined not to go down without a fight. They Marine pilots fired Mavericks, but they also came in too close and one of them suffered the same fate as the previous SuperCobra and was blown from the sky by a Gremlin. The Mavericks found their mark and the AGI was soon sinking by the stern.



Captain Ivanov was approaching perpendicular to the course of the PhibRon. At his closest approach, he decided to let loose his Type 65-76 wake-homing torpedoes. Their phenomenal range meant that they could actually catch the large landing ships. He fired them on bearing-only launch.

As soon as they left the tubes, the NATO sonar operators must have heard their launch transient for a helo came out to investigate. The crew kept their fingers crossed and hoped to live long enough to deliver the rest of their ordnance. Once the tubes were re-loaded, a second, then a third, brace of lethal 650mm killer torpedoes were launched.



This also gave the helo systems operator sufficient information to further localize the onrushing submarine and a Mk46 ASW torpedo was dropped. Although nearly blind in their haste, K-305's sonar operator detected the high-pitched eminations from the approaching torpedo. As a final act of desperation, the K-305 fired the 3 USET-80 torpedoes in her tubes on the last generated sonar bearings just as the Mk46 struck. With 92% of their flotation destroyed, the crew blew the ballast tanks and tried to fight their way to the surface. The pressure of the North Atlantic ended their race at -190m when their pressure hull imploded.

Although they did not live to see it, their torpedoes ran true and first LHA Saipan, the LHD Wasp were struck by the massive Type 65-76 torpedoes. Both were lost immediately. The USET-80 torpedoes selected the CG Leahy for their terminal run and two were more than enough to leave her listing with here engine room flooded.

With his three High Value Units sinking, Ed conceded the game. Jan Mayen would get no re-inforcement this day.

Thanks for a very nice game and congratulations to Bart on the first MP session for his debut scenario. Thanks, also, to Harpgamer for hosting the server.
 
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