Operation Hubertus Gun emplacement

[Juzek]

I have a retained Gun but its crew was eliminated, and no extra crews to man it. In the setup for the next CG Day I could man it with a HS. Could that Gun be Emplaced? I'm planning that the answer is no, in which case could it still be concealed? I think I could hold it offboard for the next day in the event a Gun is disabled and its crew survives.

 

[Chris Bryer]

I just read that a gun must be emplaced by a Crew, however once emplaced by that crew it can be manned later by a HS and still maintain it's emplacement. I read this in the BFP PiF magazine's article 'Guns in ASL' by Chas Smith.

A HS, but not a Squad. Interesting footnote.

 

[Juzek]

So in the course of a scenario an emplaced gun that hasn't moved can be manned by a HS, according to the BFP article, but that doesn't appear in The ASL Bible. What about a retained gun without a crew setting up for the next CG date? I'm thinking I need to retain that gun offboard for the next day in the event another gun is disabled and its crew survives.

 

[Chris Bryer]

So in the course of a scenario an emplaced gun that hasn't moved can be manned by a HS, according to the BFP article, but that doesn't appear in The ASL Bible. What about a retained gun without a crew setting up for the next CG date? I'm thinking I need to retain that gun offboard for the next day in the event another gun is disabled and its crew survives.

Once the gun moves it's no longer emplaced. So ,yes it would need a new crew to emplace it again.

 

[Juzek]

So if I left the gun in its intitial set up location from the previous scenario it could still be emplaced, even with a HS as crew, according to the BFP article. I'd probably need to have an ASL rule reference to convince an opponent so I guess I'll retain the gun for the next CG day.

 

[Larry]

C11.2 answers the question:

11.2 EMPLACEMENT: The To Hit procedure vs a Gun which has not
been hooked up and which set up manned by a crew and has not been
moved since the start of the scenario (11.3)

Set up is day to day in the CG.

A Gun can never be Emplaced ... and does not receive the +2 TEM while manned by a squad.

A gun manned by a squad is still emplaced but does not get the +2. Subtle distinction. Should that squad deploy, the gun and HS would then get the +2.

 

[Larry]

and the Q&A:

A12.34, C11.2, & C11.3
Can a Gun, manned by an ad-hoc HS crew set up Emplaced and thus also set up HIP?
A. A Gun must be manned by a crew to set up Emplaced, but an already-Emplaced Gun manned by a HS will receive the +2 TEM,
but one manned by a squad will not. {1}
[See errata from ASL Journal 11]

 

[ScottRomanowski]

@Larry, that Q&A is in Klas's "Obsolete Q&A" section, but I think it is there only for the errata to C11.2. Everything else should still stand.
C11.3 reinforces that a Gun needs to be set up manned by a crew to be Emplaced: "If a Gun is a RCL or starts a scenario hooked up or manned by a non-crew unit, moves, or its manning Infantry voluntarily forfeits Wall Advantage (B9.322) it loses the “Emplaced” To Hit DRM of Case Q."

I'm not familiar with the CG, but the Gun, like any non-Emplaced Gun, could gain Concealment.

 

[Larry]

My read is that the Journal 11 errata codified the Q&A:

C11.2: line 2, after “which” add “set up manned by a crew and”.
C11.3: line 1, delete “is”. Line 1, after “If a Gun” add “is a RCL or”. After the last sentence, add “A Gun that sets up qualified for Emplaced status may nevertheless set up non-Emplaced, provided this fact is noted on a side record.”.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

My read is that the Journal 11 errata codified the Q&A:

It did.

 

[Juzek]

I appreciate all the input on this. What I gather is that a retained Gun set up with a HS for a crew cannot be emplaced but can be concealed but not HIP since that requires Emplacement. Even if the Gun stayed in its setup hex from the previous CG day it cannot be emplaced unless manned by a crew. However, the Refit step "Clearing the Map" instructs us to remove non-isolated units and equipment from the map so there isn't an option for that anyway. It seems there is no way to replace a gun crew.

 

[ColinJ]

Its been years since I've done a RB CG, but you can use a vehicle crew in place of an infantry crew to man the gun. This will depend on how the Refit Phase works regarding vehicles and their crews, which I don't remember. I do have a cloudy recollection that some of the RGs coming in with 1-2-7 crews. Generally speaking, crews refer to the both the vehicular 1-2-? and the infantry 2-2-? variety and there are no penalties for a 1-2-7 vehicular crew to man a Gun.
I did see in your post you have no extra crews available, but you may have been referring to the 2-2-8 infantry variety. If you have an extra 1-2-7 crew available, use it to man the Gun and therefore setup HIP and Emplaced. If not, might be time to request an RG with the 1-2-7 crews for subsequent CG days.
Good Luck!
Colin

 

[Juzek]

Its been years since I've done a RB CG, but you can use a vehicle crew in place of an infantry crew to man the gun. This will depend on how the Refit Phase works regarding vehicles and their crews, which I don't remember. I do have a cloudy recollection that some of the RGs coming in with 1-2-7 crews. Generally speaking, crews refer to the both the vehicular 1-2-? and the infantry 2-2-? variety and there are no penalties for a 1-2-7 vehicular crew to man a Gun.
I did see in your post you have no extra crews available, but you may have been referring to the 2-2-8 infantry variety. If you have an extra 1-2-7 crew available, use it to man the Gun and therefore setup HIP and Emplaced. If not, might be time to request an RG with the 1-2-7 crews for subsequent CG days.

Yes, I thought of buying an RG that includes crews, like anATG section or MOL Pltn, but I have other needs. Plus, that still leaves a Gun unmanned, and it only helps in the next CG day since the crews have to start with the weapons that are assigned in the RG.

I have not used any armor RGs yet, except for some Dug-In T-60s. One got eliminated without crew survival.

You'd think the Russians could train up a few guys to man a gun but that's not how it works. At worst I have a Gun that will be available for the next day even if I have to use a HS.

 

[Eagle4ty]

Yes, I thought of buying an RG that includes crews, like anATG section or MOL Pltn, but I have other needs. Plus, that still leaves a Gun unmanned, and it only helps in the next CG day since the crews have to start with the weapons that are assigned in the RG.

I have not used any armor RGs yet, except for some Dug-In T-60s. One got eliminated without crew survival.

You'd think the Russians could train up a few guys to man a gun but that's not how it works. At worst I have a Gun that will be available for the next day even if I have to use a HS.

Nothing saying you can't give the Gun to a 127 MMG crew as well as his MMG and then transfer the MMG to a waiting Inf MMC (hopefully a 458). Just got to think out of the box.