OK so ASL Starter Kit Expansion Pack #1 is back what else is coming.

kcole4001

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Considering the pace of production, ASL is still a pretty cheap hobby for many.
Unless you're having to acquire everything at once, which is impossible at present, there's usually plenty of time between the announcement
of pre-order status to the beginning of shipment to squirrel away some money.
I've been playing since the SL days and there are still so many scenarios available that I'll never be able to play them all.

I know it's different for those who have a relatively large pool of available ftf players, they do seem to be running out of scenarios, but for most of us,
there is lots of material to go around.

Regarding the prices, some of the OOP material will never be reprinted, so you just have to either accept the inflated cost or forgo that piece of the system.
I couldn't always afford new releases when they were new and delayed purchase until it was too late and then had to pay the ebay premium price.
Only I could decide whether that module was worth the cost, but even at over $200 you're still getting pretty good bang for your buck
considering how long you'll be using those components.

The higher costs of modules gets a little easier to take when your collection gets closer to being complete.
You need less of an outlay to catch up, it's like paying a mortgage, the closer to the end you get the better you feel about it.
Core modules used to cost $40-60, now they start at $80.
Compared to other hobbies, it's still pretty cheap considering the amount of enjoyment you can get out of each purchase.
Buy what you can when you can and enjoy what you already have.

Sure, it could be better, but it could easily be a lot worse.
 

mi80j

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I suspect an AFV module with a very minimum amount of infantry would have done better. Even better would be modules designed with scenarios that are limited to the counter mix. That way they could keep the size under control and release it in sections with the next one building on the first. Sort of like an expansion pack.
Lemme guess... you're about to suggest there's a kewl gamesystem called ATS, which just so happens to have packs JUST LIKE the one you described... hmmm?

Or, should I ask,
How's your man,
Rock, Sgt. Dan?
 

Bob Walters

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I bought that when it was first published by AH a very long time ago. At that point the one could also get a track hit and the most powerful AT weapon with the 40mm AA gun because of the way the combat tables worked. Kind of soured my on the experience.
 

Bob Walters

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Considering the pace of production, ASL is still a pretty cheap hobby for many.
Unless you're having to acquire everything at once, which is impossible at present, there's usually plenty of time between the announcement
of pre-order status to the beginning of shipment to squirrel away some money.
I've been playing since the SL days and there are still so many scenarios available that I'll never be able to play them all.

I know it's different for those who have a relatively large pool of available ftf players, they do seem to be running out of scenarios, but for most of us,
there is lots of material to go around.

Regarding the prices, some of the OOP material will never be reprinted, so you just have to either accept the inflated cost or forgo that piece of the system.
I couldn't always afford new releases when they were new and delayed purchase until it was too late and then had to pay the ebay premium price.
Only I could decide whether that module was worth the cost, but even at over $200 you're still getting pretty good bang for your buck
considering how long you'll be using those components.

The higher costs of modules gets a little easier to take when your collection gets closer to being complete.
You need less of an outlay to catch up, it's like paying a mortgage, the closer to the end you get the better you feel about it.
Core modules used to cost $40-60, now they start at $80.
Compared to other hobbies, it's still pretty cheap considering the amount of enjoyment you can get out of each purchase.
Buy what you can when you can and enjoy what you already have.

Sure, it could be better, but it could easily be a lot worse.
Yeah, I stopped after the first 3 modules were released. Now I am taking it up again and find I have to play catchup. Not so much a problem for me when the stuff is available but, unlike a great many my age, I remember what it is like to be a struggling student or young person. I do not like to see unnecessary barriers to the hobby.
 

greuh

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Yup.
I gave up the idea of completeness. I've only started recently and gotten hold of AH versions of Modules 1 to 10, a v2 RB and a few side things here and there (a few action packs, magazines etc. from nice second hand sales, plus packs available for download on various websites - DM, BGG, HoB, LFT...).
Sticky erratas from TexasASL, scissors and glue...
I might get a HP while it's still available but that's mostly for rules pages. Now, I'll concentrate on playing. I've treated myself to pre-order a Red Factories but I doubt I'll ever get to play it.

With one game a month, that's more than sufficient.
 

Bob Walters

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Yup.
I gave up the idea of completeness. I've only started recently and gotten hold of AH versions of Modules 1 to 10, a v2 RB and a few side things here and there (a few action packs, magazines etc. from nice second hand sales, plus packs available for download on various websites - DM, BGG, HoB, LFT...).
Sticky erratas from TexasASL, scissors and glue...
I might get a HP while it's still available but that's mostly for rules pages. Now, I'll concentrate on playing. I've treated myself to pre-order a Red Factories but I doubt I'll ever get to play it.

With one game a month, that's more than sufficient.
Yeah since I got back into ASL last October I have been able to pick up a bit of stuff at a decent price. I was able to get Code of Bushido and Gung Ho for about $50 bucks each from Amazon no less. But Hollow Legions was about a hundred bucks on eBay that was balanced out by HP for about sixty. It seems the Croix de Guerre, Doomed Battalions, and Armies of Oblivion are not to be had for a reasonable price. I am not about to spend $200 or more for them as that to me is price gouging. In the meantime I try to find a way around it. I have both Allied Minor and Axis Minor infantry as those are cheap. I was able to get Dutch armored cars from ASL Journal 2, Belgium Tanks and Guns from Critical Hit, Dutch Artillery from Lone Canucks, and some French Infantry, Guns, and AFVs from Critical Hit. I purchased Poland in Flames from Bounding Fire and it has all the Polish one could want. I still need more French Infantry and AFVS (although there appears to also be some French AFVs in HP in a dark enough blue to pass) and more various Allied Minor and Axis Minor AFVs. I am thinking that Counter Attacks 2 from Critical Hit might be a good source of Axis Minor stuff. The upcoming reprint of Blood and Jungle might also be a good source. I am not too worried about Commonwealth stuff and it seem to crop up in a bunch of places. As I mentioned in another post it has become kind of a treasure hung.
 

kcole4001

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At least you're finding ways to get around what's not readily or reasonably available.
The days of someone selling off their older kit at reasonable prices on ebay seems long over, but you never know what might crop up locally
or close by on craigslist or whatever.
CH does seem to be a good supplier for needed counters.
 

Bob Walters

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At least you're finding ways to get around what's not readily or reasonably available.
The days of someone selling off their older kit at reasonable prices on ebay seems long over, but you never know what might crop up locally
or close by on craigslist or whatever.
CH does seem to be a good supplier for needed counters.
The joys of living in another part of the country. There are never any ASL stuff on craigslist where I live.
 

kcole4001

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I'm in Canada, there's even less here.
The last time I saw any SL/ASL stuff in a hobby shop was 1992.
Now there are extremely few hobby shops.
I only know of one within 200 km.
It's a good store but has no gaming stuff at all. Lots of models and train stuff.
 

Philippe D.

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No big surprise here, Internet stores have killed the brick-and-mortar stores for such niche items.

20 years ago, you'd have a few stores here and there stocking wargames and similar items, and having a very hard time guessing what to stock. Now we all order online, so they've stopped bothering. Pleasant as it is to go to a real place and get your new box, it's just much more efficient this way.

Also, these stores would serve as meeting places, or at least make it possible for like-minded players to find each other. Now that part is mostly obsolete too - players find each other online, when they're still trying to play FtF.
 

hongkongwargamer

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Yeah, I stopped after the first 3 modules were released. Now I am taking it up again and find I have to play catchup. Not so much a problem for me when the stuff is available but, unlike a great many my age, I remember what it is like to be a struggling student or young person. I do not like to see unnecessary barriers to the hobby.
You mentioned "struggling student or young person" a few times. Is there big enough of a "struggling student or young person" population who are dying to get into ASL so much so that it's a missed business opportunity? It must be a bubbling ASL scene where you live?

I came across 1 high school student and about 2 grad students over here myself - in China.

My personal experience in getting into ASL less than 3 years back is really about playing the game as much as possible with what I have. I have never hit a point where I ran out of scenarios to play with or people to play against. Things just came - my Hollow Legions and BV was free .. so was my HOB Long March and Yanks as well. TERRIFIC deals on pretty much everything else I got ($40 for Barricades?)

The struggle for me as more about keeping ASL from taking over the rest of my life. :)

I think the issue for some is they confuse collecting ASL with playing ASL. One UK player made a great point to me not long ago, you only need one set of gear between two people to play.

Regards, Jack
 

Philippe D.

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Good points... but since it's much easier to find the opportunity to collect than play (no other player needed), the natural tendency is to start collecting. And you rationalize it by saying you're organizing your stuff so it's easier to get playing the next time...

(Guilty!)
 

von Marwitz

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You mentioned "struggling student or young person" a few times.
I believe what he means is that most students wanting to get into ASL (regardless of the overall number) have the difficulty that their available pocket money makes this a somewhat expensive undertaking even if allowing for regular prices and not eBay moon-prices.

I think he is right. I remember being in the same situation as a student. To get the ASLRB and BV alone took some months of savings. And I knew there were about 10 core modules out there. The counters needed to be stored & sorted in some sort of containers, etc. Relatively speaking, purchasing the ASL stuff at the prices back then as a student was more taxing for many than buying the same things in one's 40s at eBay moon-prices right now.

In the long run, of course, ASL is a cheap hobby compared to many others if one sticks with the game.

von Marwitz
 

Bob Walters

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I believe what he means is that most students wanting to get into ASL (regardless of the overall number) have the difficulty that their available pocket money makes this a somewhat expensive undertaking even if allowing for regular prices and not eBay moon-prices.

I think he is right. I remember being in the same situation as a student. To get the ASLRB and BV alone took some months of savings. And I knew there were about 10 core modules out there. The counters needed to be stored & sorted in some sort of containers, etc. Relatively speaking, purchasing the ASL stuff at the prices back then as a student was more taxing for many than buying the same things in one's 40s at eBay moon-prices right now.

In the long run, of course, ASL is a cheap hobby compared to many others if one sticks with the game.

von Marwitz
Yep. you pretty much hit the name on the head. Given from what I have seen of the pictures at the conventions it seems mostly old dudes which. given the first word in the description, is an ever shrinking group. When I first got interesting in wargaming back when I was in high school I could never have afforded the cost even in '60s dollars. Heck, even when I started with Squad Leader I doubt I could have afforded the cost. Now, of course, it is not so much a big deal but I still have trouble justifying the cost -- I guess that what happens when you get my age. Note, I am not saying that the stuff is over priced (except for the so-called collectors items on eBay) but rather that they are too large. This also does not mean I am not buying them but I worry about closing out the next generation.
 

Bob Walters

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I'm in Canada, there's even less here.
The last time I saw any SL/ASL stuff in a hobby shop was 1992.
Now there are extremely few hobby shops.
I only know of one within 200 km.
It's a good store but has no gaming stuff at all. Lots of models and train stuff.
Yeah, Northern California is not a hot bed of wargaming. I am not sure any of the hobby shops around here carry ASL stuff but I have only come back in the last few months and I do not get around well and the people I used to play wargames with all moved away thirty years ago. Heck, I will be doing almost all my play solo as a way of getting a deeper understanding of the actions that took place on the various battlefields during WW2.
 

Philippe D.

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Guys, your hypothetical struggling students don't have to get the whole system. The RB and BV are all that's needed; that comes to $160 (before shipping) on MMP's website if you go for the pocket RB. With that, you get complete rules (which is more than I got when I started; Chapters E, F and G were not included), a very reasonable number of scenarios (it was 8 back then!), and the stuff to play hundreds more if you can get your hands on them. For the struggling student, that's enough to play the game until he can afford the rest.

OK, so $160 (plus shipping, and taxes - think of the European struggling student!) is not a small sum for a single game, but it is something that is not completely out of reach if you know you're going to play this game for years. Smart storing systems for the counters can wait, especially since you only have the 14(!) or so countersheets of BV. This is about what it costs to buy 3 video games that you'll be playing for about one month each.

Is ASL cheap? No. But the entry cost is nowhere near what it takes to obtain a full system. That's just something to keep the older, graying (or balding) crowd out there busy.
 

Bob Walters

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Depends on the video game and when you buy it. Some games I buy when they first are released and some I wait a few months. You wait a bit and many times steam will have them on sale for up to half off. A hundred and sixty bucks is a whole lot of money for a lot of people. Mind you I have not decried the value one gets with ASL just the large outlay at one time.
 

Philippe D.

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Somehow I knew someone was going to contest my figure of 3 video games... which misses the point entirely.
 

hongkongwargamer

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Well - truth be told I want massive ASL packages with lots of gaming.

I wanna order big mother of all payloads in singular shippings. Lots of little packs are going to kill me in postage - money that could have went to MMP will then go to USPS.

Rgds Jack
 
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Brian W

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Guys, your hypothetical struggling students don't have to get the whole system. The RB and BV are all that's needed; that comes to $160 (before shipping) on MMP's website if you go for the pocket RB. With that, you get complete rules (which is more than I got when I started; Chapters E, F and G were not included), a very reasonable number of scenarios (it was 8 back then!), and the stuff to play hundreds more if you can get your hands on them.
You cannot play the system with the pocket ASLRBv3 as it lacks many charts, and even with the charts it lacks chapter H vehicle notes, which are often required for scenarios. The full ASLRB is only $16 more, although it lacks chapters F & G, but that is not a problem with most German v Russian scenarios.
 
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