OBA Flame creation

J P

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I had 120mm arty roll DR4 in a building hex, and my question is: Do we then roll for flame? B25.13 says "on an Original KIA" - the word original tends to imply that the +3 stone building is not used for deciding whether a flame may be created, anybody able to help? - I am the German in ABTF so the more buildings i destroy the better!:devil:
 

Tater

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jp said:
I had 120mm arty roll DR4 in a building hex, and my question is: Do we then roll for flame? B25.13 says "on an Original KIA" - the word original tends to imply that the +3 stone building is not used for deciding whether a flame may be created, anybody able to help? - I am the German in ABTF so the more buildings i destroy the better!:devil:
First you check for rubble. If there is no rubble creation then you check for flame. If you roll the kindling# for the effected terrain then you have a flame.
 

jimfer

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Rubble creation

Hey jp,

The +3 does not apply to the rubble creation die roll. You do need to add the +1 due to building being stone. You can not create any rubble on a "4" roll on the 24 chart when you add the +1 stone building modifier. Just roll for flame.

Jimfer
 

MajorDomo

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rubble creation

To rubble a stone building, you need to obtain a KIA on the IFT roll, then you need to roll a dr (single die) less than or equal to the KIA# number. This subsequent dr gets the +1 for a stone building.
Rich
 
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J P

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That changes the lethality of OBA!!!! Up until now OBA had just been an annoyance to anyone on the ground floor of a level 2 stone building now it has much more serious implications! Thanks for the input, it was greatly appreciated! Cant wait for next game when i can buy some 150mm Arty!
 

J P

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BTW, assuming the Arty creates rubble (or fire) in a building hex do we do a random dr to determine the location? (i.e. level 0 1 or 2) or is it assumed to be at ground level?
 

CHERDE

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Correction

jimfer said:
Hey jp,

You do need to add the +1 due to building being stone. You can not create any rubble on a "4" roll on the 24 chart when you add the +1 stone building modifier. Just roll for flame.

Jimfer
IMHO this is not correct.
The +1 for stone is not to the IFT DR but to the subsequent "rubble" dr.
MajorDomo corrected this in his next post #4!

Note: I have no IFT ready!
 

CHERDE

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rubble each level

jp said:
BTW, assuming the Arty creates rubble (or fire) in a building hex do we do a random dr to determine the location? (i.e. level 0 1 or 2) or is it assumed to be at ground level?
I have NRBH. So I am not sure if every Location gets its own IFT DR on OBA attack or if there is only one OBA IFT DR per hex.

But I am pretty sure that each level is checked for rubble seperately with a "rubble" dr.
 

Yarlis

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jp said:
BTW, assuming the Arty creates rubble (or fire) in a building hex do we do a random dr to determine the location? (i.e. level 0 1 or 2) or is it assumed to be at ground level?
As per B24.11, for Rubble creation, "the level affected in an ATT/OBA attack vs a multi-level building is determined via Random Selection among those level hits".

After the level is determined, all levels above are automatically rubbled also (as per same rule).
 

Tater

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jp said:
That changes the lethality of OBA!!!! Up until now OBA had just been an annoyance to anyone on the ground floor of a level 2 stone building now it has much more serious implications! Thanks for the input, it was greatly appreciated! Cant wait for next game when i can buy some 150mm Arty!
Causing rubble is fairly rare...the OBA has to be on target, you have to roll low enough for at a least a 1KIA (2KIA for stone building) and then follow up with a dr roll =< the KIA# that was rolled.

Even with a 150mm you got to have a DR of 4 vs a stone building to even have a chance at rubble. Then this would have to be followed by a dr of 1 (+1 for stone). A 200mm OBA is only slightly better.

Now, when you do hit that rubble it can be pretty devestating. Particularly if you can get the "domino" effect with falling rubble. I've only seen the "domino" once...took out 5 squads and a leader. The last falling rubble landed in the street on a tank.
 

jimfer

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Tate is correct on when falling rubble happens that it can be spectacular. I played Aachens Pall against Dave Finan. This was a one fire phase game. He fired on the ATT and rolled snakes and of course rubbled the hex killed all the concealed troops and falling rubble took out the next hex that had the majority of my troops and Leaders. It would have been super cool if I had not been on the recieving end.

Jimfer
 

Legion

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Poor JP just discovered that, a Thrown DC rubbled the factory he was in and took a 9-1 and 2x 658's with it... desperate moves for desperate times with a result i can write home about!
:banana:
I will probably lose this CG without him raising a sweat, but THIS last attack was a Kodak moment
 

Tater

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jimfer said:
Tate is correct on when falling rubble happens that it can be spectacular. I played Aachens Pall against Dave Finan. This was a one fire phase game. He fired on the ATT and rolled snakes and of course rubbled the hex killed all the concealed troops and falling rubble took out the next hex that had the majority of my troops and Leaders. It would have been super cool if I had not been on the recieving end.

Jimfer
FYI...CH has no effect on terrain relative to rubble or flame creation (C3.73). The resolution of the hit vs the terrain would have been at the ATT FP (1/2 FP)which (depending on the calibre) would probably not have been enough to cause any rubbling. IOW, you got hosed! ;)
 

jimfer

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Snakes followed by a 1 on the rubble creation will kill you on the 16 table. Lots of goo was all that was left.

Jimfer
 

J P

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You enjoy your Kodak moment legion - it wont last long. BTW, has anyone noticed that i put up the question about rubble and Legion scores the benefits? Ironic. (not to be confused with moronic - <insert smart arse comment about legion here> )
 

Tater

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jimfer said:
Snakes followed by a 1 on the rubble creation will kill you on the 16 table. Lots of goo was all that was left.

Jimfer
To true...to true...:eek:
 

Legion

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jp said:
You enjoy your Kodak moment legion - it wont last long. BTW, has anyone noticed that i put up the question about rubble and Legion scores the benefits? Ironic. (not to be confused with moronic - <insert smart arse comment about legion here> )
What is that noise from under the burning Rubble... [soft voice] "Quick, quick, get a medic"
 

CHERDE

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questions

@ all
I overlooked C 1.5 and A 24.11
sorry:eek:


Tater said:
...FYI...CH has no effect on terrain relative to rubble or flame creation (C3.73). The resolution of the hit vs the terrain would have been at the ATT FP (1/2 FP)...
I read the rule and I am not 100% sure what it means.
A MMC in a wood building is hit by 80mm Harrassing fire OBA. IFT DR= snake eyes.

Is the MMC affected on the 30 IFT column with -2 DRM (effect= 6KIA)?

Is the rubble / flame checked on the 4 IFT column ? The Original DR effect of K/2 would be to low to allow further dr/DR for rubble/fire.
Correct?


Finally, can you explain to me you saying
"...The resolution of the hit vs the terrain would have been at the ATT FP (1/2 FP)..."
Is this of concern to OBA?
 

Tater

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CHERDE said:
Is the MMC affected on the 30 IFT column with -2 DRM (effect= 6KIA)?
Correct...

Is the rubble / flame checked on the 4 IFT column ? The Original DR effect of K/2 would be to low to allow further dr/DR for rubble/fire.Correct?
Correct on both...

Finally, can you explain to me you saying "...The resolution of the hit vs the terrain would have been at the ATT FP (1/2 FP)..." Is this of concern to OBA?
No concern to OBA...it only concerns ordnance that designates (or must use) the ATT TH table.
 
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