OBA and HIP Units

PaulS

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Is there any reason I can’t use OBA HE or WP in sections of the map that are entirely devoid of Known enemy units to try and flush out HIP defenders? Doesn’t appear to be any extra chit draw if I have LOS to the base of the SR/FFE. I vaguely recall reading something about this before but my memory is wanting. I didn’t have any luck on a Gamesquad search.

Thanks,

Paul S. of the West
 

M.Netto

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I can't see why not. If you have LOS to the base level of the SR, you can convert it. I don't see anything in the rules that would prevent that. You have to draw an extra chit only if there are enemy units in or adjacent to the SR and all of them are unknown. I suppose a player can place a HIP unit in place under a "?", if you only have LOS to blast height, in order to force a chit draw.
 

Vinnie

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I can't see why not. If you have LOS to the base level of the SR, you can convert it. I don't see anything in the rules that would prevent that. You have to draw an extra chit only if there are enemy units in or adjacent to the SR and all of them are unknown. I suppose a player can place a HIP unit in place under a "?", if you only have LOS to blast height, in order to force a chit draw.
He would have to place the unit on board prior to you placing the AR in the area.
 

EagleIV

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He would have to place the unit on board prior to you placing the AR in the area.
Correct, the unit could not be placed on board between the time the AR is placed and the SR (or FFE if allowed) is placed in the final hex (and if an FFE the first effects DR is made).
 

Paul John

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While legal, this seems like a waste of OBA. It's a potentially powerful weapon that you are likely just using to bounce rocks.
(Paul S. of the East, but not that one.)
 

Doug Leslie

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Most likely situation for this to be a tactic for the attacker is probably when launching an assault against a cave complex.
 

PaulS

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Good advice from everyone. Thanks.

Here is the Observer’s situation: there is heavy rain (no SMOKE [which I deperately want] and no accuracy beyond 6 hexes), most of the enemy is still HIP and a number are almost certainly in the high ground of west Kakazu village among wood buildings and rubble, and it is already Ami turn 3 and OBA needs to get rolling. Since there would be no accuracy possible, a max. stray of one hex during a correction FFE will still keep my troops out of danger.

Question 2: Since Observer is at same level as my potential target hexes would a 1/2 level rubble hex adjacent to a target hex and between the Observer and said hex prevent him from seeing the Base Level of the SR/FFE? If that makes sense.

Question 3: C1.56 states that FFE is not halved vs. concealed units. Does this include HIP units? My guess is yes; my opponent might ask this.

Thanks again,
Paul S.
 

EagleIV

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Question 2: Since Observer is at same level as my potential target hexes would a 1/2 level rubble hex adjacent to a target hex and between the Observer and said hex prevent him from seeing the Base Level of the SR/FFE? If that makes sense.

Question 3: C1.56 states that FFE is not halved vs. concealed units. Does this include HIP units? My guess is yes; my opponent might ask this.

Thanks again,
Paul S.
The LOS to the base level would be blocked by Rubble just as the rubble would block a shot at a unit in the hex. One time the Base Level reference makes a difference is when firing at buildings when you have to see the ground level of the building, not the 1st or 2nd, etc. level.

When OBA hits HIP or Concealed units the FP is not halved for concealment.
 

clubby

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Good advice from everyone. Thanks.

Here is the Observer’s situation: there is heavy rain (no SMOKE [which I deperately want] and no accuracy beyond 6 hexes), most of the enemy is still HIP and a number are almost certainly in the high ground of west Kakazu village among wood buildings and rubble, and it is already Ami turn 3 and OBA needs to get rolling. Since there would be no accuracy possible, a max. stray of one hex during a correction FFE will still keep my troops out of danger.

Question 2: Since Observer is at same level as my potential target hexes would a 1/2 level rubble hex adjacent to a target hex and between the Observer and said hex prevent him from seeing the Base Level of the SR/FFE? If that makes sense.

Question 3: C1.56 states that FFE is not halved vs. concealed units. Does this include HIP units? My guess is yes; my opponent might ask this.

Thanks again,
Paul S.
HIP is just a form of concealment and oba is never halved for concealment.
 

PaulS

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Thanks everyone, I am getting questions answered and will be able to start Turn 3 without my nose buried in the RB. It appears that my attempt to use HE concentration on the west village will be a bit more tenuous than first thought. Glad the rubble obstruction question is cleared up (thanks Eagle IV) as it will likely be a factor during this scenario.

Paul S.
 

clubby

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Thanks everyone, I am getting questions answered and will be able to start Turn 3 without my nose buried in the RB. It appears that my attempt to use HE concentration on the west village will be a bit more tenuous than first thought. Glad the rubble obstruction question is cleared up (thanks Eagle IV) as it will likely be a factor during this scenario.

Paul S.
You're playing barricades? Where'd you put the observer that you don't have Los over rubble? You gotta get those babies high up.
 

Doug Leslie

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HIP Caves are immune to OBA
I don't see anything in the cave rules to support this but I could of course be missing something! Do you have a rule citation? It is certainly the case that a hidden cave cannot be designated as a possible target but I don't think that this applies to OBA.
 

klasmalmstrom

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G11.81:
"Neither a hidden cave nor its contents may be predesignated as a target, included as part of any Random Selection DR, or hit/affected by any attack other than Bombardment (11.841). [EXC: A FT can also attack the occupants of all Accessible caves (11.834); WP can reveal all Accessible caves (11.851).]
 

PaulS

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We are playing Clearing Kakazu. Nice intro for the caves.
 

Vinnie

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If here is a lot of woods or jungle around, consider an harassing fire mission. That covers a bigger area and the negative modifier somewhat off sets the reduced firepower.

If a hip unit in an hip foxhole is affected but the entrenchment would turn a PTC into no effect, do you still place the entrenchment on board?
 

ibncalb

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If a hip unit in an hip foxhole is affected but the entrenchment would turn a PTC into no effect, do you still place the entrenchment on board?
I think you have to validate the DRM of the attack so I would place a FH on board.

If I had FHs and trenches I might be a bit more cagey, but I think the official line would be to place the FH.

Good question.
 

ScottRomanowski

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Any HIP fortification is placed on board if you use its protective TEM. There's this unofficial Q&A:
A12.33 Does a Hidden Fortifications containing hidden units lose HIP if the Location containing the Hidden Fortification is subjected to an attack which would cause loss of concealment to the units if they were not protected by the Hidden Fortification’s TEM, but has no effect because of the Hidden Fortification’s TEM? What about a Pillbox which is subjected to such Canister fire from its NCA (B30.113)?
A. Per A12.33, once you claim TEM, the HIP status is lost from any type of Fortification. Yes, you would be claiming its protection and it would lose HIP. [Kiri Naiman to Avalon Hill, 1990‑1993]
 

PaulS

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Hello again,

I think I still maybe playing the OBA vs HIP units wrong, based on the example in C1.62. In the first sentence of the second paragraph it states, “If the Russians in U3 and U4 were both under “?” and in Concealment terrain, or were abesent altogether, in order to …attempt to place a SR on it the German would have to draw an extra black chit…” This suggests I would have to do an extra chit draw if I was just snooping for HIP units, even if I can see the base level of the SR or FFE correction hex. This is the only direct wording I can see concerning HIP units as the RB and OBA flowchart only states, “If there are enemy units in or adjacent to the AR hex, are all of them unknown to the Observer?” with no mention of units being completely absent (at least to the Observer). Thoughts on this, please?

Paul S.
 
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