- Thread starter waltu
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You can do the above and then place an unconcealed real unit on top of that, but in such case, the top unit could not 'grow' an extra concealment counter (i.e. unit, "?", unit would become unit, unit, "?" at game start if out of LOS and not unit, "?", unit, "?").

von Marwitz

The second situation makes sense. You cannot place a non-OB designated "?" above an OB-designated "?" counter, per A12.12. And leaving a real unit unconcealed on top of a stack containing dummy counters doesn't accomplish much anyway.

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... No unit can be concealed more than once at any one time, althoughone or moreDummy counters (12.11) can be placed atop a unit(s). ...

I remember some controversy a long time ago about growing concealment counters on dummy stacks that split apart. I think it had to do with trying to protect against snipers. I guess this technique could also be useful to deny concealment gain. Is this allowed?... but if allowed to do so may place a "concealment counter" (i.e. generate another "?" counter) on top of UNITS(including Dummy Units)that move from a concealed stack and still retain concealed status.

Yes when you split up a concealed stack of units you are allowed to add a concealment counter to the top of each stack. If you have a stack of 3 counters (which could be any combination of MMC/SMC/Dummies/SW (as long as there is a real unit possessing the SW before and after the split) that has a concealment counter on top (so there are a total of 4 counters in the stack) you can split it into 2 stacks (one stack of 1 counter and the other of 2 counters) each of which has an additional concealment counter on top.I remember some controversy a long time ago about growing concealment counters on dummy stacks that split apart. I think it had to do with trying to protect against snipers. I guess this technique could also be useful to deny concealment gain. Is this allowed?

So If I understand correctly,Yes when you split up a concealed stack of units you are allowed to add a concealment counter to the top of each stack. If you have a stack of 3 counters (which could be any combination of MMC/SMC/Dummies/SW (as long as there is a real unit possessing the SW before and after the split) that has a concealment counter on top (so there are a total of 4 counters in the stack) you can split it into 2 stacks (one stack of 1 counter and the other of 2 counters) each of which has an additional concealment counter on top.

a) a stack of 3 counters 4-5-7, a LMG, and a ? counter could split into 2 stacks a 4-5-7 and LMG with a new ? counter and a stack with the previous ? and an additional ?... That's strange. I guess only units can split and the previous ? counter is not a unit. So the stack is not allowed to split.

b) a stack with 2 MMC, one possessed SW and a ? on top. The stack could split in 2 stacks. First a stack with one MMC and the previous ? counter with above it a new ? counter and a stack with MMC and SW which gains a new ? as well. (So the stack with 4 counters splits in 2 stacks of 3 counters.)?

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Not quite.

A stack of 2 squads with ? can split into 2 stacks of 1 squad and 1 ? If they come together in the saqme hex again, one of the ? must be removed.

A dummy stack (ie: 3 ? counters) hopefully looking like 2 concealed squads, could split into 2 stacks of 2 ? counters. However, If the stack comes together again they may only have 3 ? counters.

In other words,... you cannot use the splitting of dummy stacks to 'grow' more dummies.

Cheers.

A stack of 2 squads with ? can split into 2 stacks of 1 squad and 1 ? If they come together in the saqme hex again, one of the ? must be removed.

A dummy stack (ie: 3 ? counters) hopefully looking like 2 concealed squads, could split into 2 stacks of 2 ? counters. However, If the stack comes together again they may only have 3 ? counters.

In other words,... you cannot use the splitting of dummy stacks to 'grow' more dummies.

Cheers.

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I think you misunderstood my point, in case b you should have 1 stack of 2 counters and 1 stack of 3 counters. You have a stack of 3 concealed counters (4 counters counting the ? on top). After the split you have 2 stacks, one with 2 concealed counters plus a ? on top, the other with 1 concealed counter plus a ? on top. What the 3 concealed counters are doesn't matter (as long as you don't have an unpossessed SW).So If I understand correctly,

a) a stack of 3 counters 4-5-7, a LMG, and a ? counter could split into 2 stacks a 4-5-7 and LMG with a new ? counter and a stack with the previous ? and an additional ?... That's strange. I guess only units can split and the previous ? counter is not a unit. So the stack is not allowed to split.

b) a stack with 2 MMC, one possessed SW and a ? on top. The stack could split in 2 stacks. First a stack with one MMC and the previous ? counter with above it a new ? counter and a stack with MMC and SW which gains a new ? as well. (So the stack with 4 counters splits in 2 stacks of 3 counters.)?

Almost but an actual non-dummy unit is not necessary in a stack to allow it to split. In a single stack there is only one concealment counter, the top most one, all other "?" counters are dummy units (Yes when you split up a concealed stack of units you are allowed to add a concealment counter to the top of each stack. If you have a stack of 3 counters (which could be any combination of MMC/SMC/Dummies/SW (as long as there is a real unit possessing the SW before and after the split) that has a concealment counter on top (so there are a total of 4 counters in the stack) you can split it into 2 stacks (one stack of 1 counter and the other of 2 counters) each of which has an additional concealment counter on top.

Thanks guys. I feared I thought misplaying it all this time.