O6.2-21 RB Cellar : ADJACENT to connected Trench?

Swiftandsure

Robin Reeve
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Hi all,
Is a connected Trench ADJACENT to a Cellar?
The example given for rule O6.2 doesn't seem to include it (but it doesn't speak of the Trench at all, which is confusing).
Cellar ADJ.JPG
EX: The C25 RB Cellar Location is ADJACENT only to the B25 RB Cellar Location and the C25 ground-level building Location. It is not ADJACENT to the RB Cellar Locations of B24 and C24, as hex C25 does not share a building hexside with either
The 6.21 EX linked to the same picture seems to imply that a connected Trench is not ADJACENT to a Cellar.
EX: See the 6.2 illustration. The squad in the D24 trench may directly enter the C25 (or C24) RB Cellar Location at a cost of two MF (see also SSR RB6). The only other Locations from which the C25 RB Cellar Location may he entered are the two Locations ADJACENT to it (see the 6.2 EX) or via Sewer movement (since C25 is a Manhole Location) or a connecting tunnel.
This seems to be in conflict with the Index definition of ADJACENT:
ADJACENT (Locations [and units in them] are considered ADJACENT if any Infantry unit in one Location could conceivably—ignoring any enemy presence—advance into the other during the APh and a LOS exists between the two Locations, excluding SMOKE Hindrance [B.10] and NVR [E1.101] as factors)
An Infantry can conceivably advance from the Trench into the Cellar (or from the Cellar into the Trench) and a LOS exists between those two Locations.
So it seems that RB Cellars' not being ADJACENT to a connected Trench is in contradiction with the standard rule.
My problem is that 6.2, which is illustrated by the first EX, doesn't clearly say that connected Trenches have another status than ADJACENT Cellars, regarding being ADJACENT.
6.2 ENTRY: Only Infantry/SW may set-up-in/enter a RB Cellar, and their presence therein is indicated by placing them beneath a Cellar counter. Infantry may enter/exit the RB Cellar level only via a Stairwell, Manhole, or a "connecting" Trench or Tunnel, and only as per B23.922 [EXC: see O.2A and SSR RB6]. Infantry already in a RB Cellar may directly enter an adjacent RB Cellar Location only if the two hexes involved share a building hexside, as determined by the building's depiction [EXC: if Rowhouse].
 

Eagle4ty

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If they were connected I believe they would meet the requirements of being ADJACENT. It may be a backhand approach to explaining the principal but if it were not so no Trench could ever be considered connected to a Cellar Location.
 

Binchois

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Sorry to butt in here as I do not have the Red Barricades rules handy. However, I think the issue is a terminology one here.

"Connecting" does not always mean ADJACENT as the rules make a distinction between ADJACENT and Accessible. These are nearly synonymous except the key issue of LOS (needed for ADJACENT, but not Accessible). See Index, B30.8, B23.922, etc.

I think that is part of the problem here. That is, I think a cellar is Accessible to the adjacent trench, but not ADJACENT to it.
 

MajorDomo

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I thought that RB trenches connect to cellars per RB SSR and thus are Adjacent for scenarios using RB rules.

My guess would be the Swiftandsure RB EX is an error and should be changed.


Rich
 

klasmalmstrom

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Seems to me like the problem might be that the same illustration was used for two examples and in the first example the Trench isn't used/mentioned at all since the first example only tries to spell out what other Locations in the building are ADJACENT (since the rule for Trenches comes later).
 

Swiftandsure

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My problem is the "only" in the first example and the "the two ADJACENT Locations to it" which seem to be contrasted with the Trench - even though the example refers to the preceding one.

So, after what I read from your answers (thanks to all !), I should consider that a connecting Trench which has LOS to a Cellar is ADJACENT to it?
I will do with that, as it seems more logical to me and as the rules don't elaborate on what seems an unexplained exception in the examples.
 

klasmalmstrom

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My problem is the "only" in the first example and the "the two ADJACENT Locations to it" which seem to be contrasted with the Trench - even though the example refers to the preceding one.
It could be the case that the O6.2 example was written before the Trench was added to the illustration, which was needed for the O6.21 example and they choose to re-use the same illustration and just forgot to change the text in the first example.
 

Swiftandsure

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Which means, Klas, that I should consider the units in the Trench ADJACENT to the adjacent Cellar?
 

Swiftandsure

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i sent a question to Perry, and that made me think of the example again.
D24 is not ADJACENT to C25, excepted for the 838 in the Trench.
This would be a case of different situations within the D24 Location (as the Trench doesn't create another Location in the hex - 27.13 only lists "for purposes of weapon Recovery or TEM" as exceptions).

So I phrased my questions this way :

Does the O6.2 example exclude the connected Trench in D24 (or at least the 8-3-8 in it) as one of the Locations ADJACENT to C25?

Is a RB Cellar ADJACENT to a unit in a connected Trench?
 

Swiftandsure

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Hi all,
Here are the answers of Perry:

Does the O6.2 example exclude the connected Trench in D24 (or at least the 8-3-8 in it) as one of the Locations ADJACENT to C25?
No.

Is a RB Cellar ADJACENT to a unit in a connected Trench?
Yes.

....Perry

MMP
 

Swiftandsure

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Perhaps will the example be updated/completed by that precision in the new Red Factories module?
 
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