November lines at Stalingrad Question

Gunner Scott

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I think I might have some serious rejiggering to do with this sort of campaign situation. I did order Island of Fire so I'll have a to more of info at my disposal. My thinking is that perhaps put the German under level's of Ammo Shortage like KGS from 1 nov to maybe the 7th or 8th of November, limit the amount of German infantry in the initial OB and further limit the amount of infantry the Germans can buy, the Germans were hurting on infantry after all, auto depleted perhaps. Thus this could give the Russians a chance to retake lost ground between Nov 1st and the start of Operation Hubertus.

This is great news!
Congratulations!
 

RRschultze

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I think I might have some serious rejiggering to do with this sort of campaign situation. I did order Island of Fire so I'll have a to more of info at my disposal. My thinking is that perhaps put the German under level's of Ammo Shortage like KGS from 1 nov to maybe the 7th or 8th of November, limit the amount of German infantry in the initial OB and further limit the amount of infantry the Germans can buy, the Germans were hurting on infantry after all, auto depleted perhaps. Thus this could give the Russians a chance to retake lost ground between Nov 1st and the start of Operation Hubertus.
have you considered having the Germans as 2nd line squads to reflect shortages or even adjust ELR ? - keep it simple! At this stage the Germans were worn out and replacements were hard to come by especially experienced ones. As you have recently played KGS - what about possibility of walking wounded (nice chrome)
 

Sully

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The unit density on that map is pretty incredible. Even if every unit is at 50% strength that's a lot of squads jammed into that little area. Especially on the Russian side. -Sully
 

Gunner Scott

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I think that is probably why The Last Bid, ahistorical as it is position wise, is designed to be fun and playable with the way the lines are specified in both the CG and scenario. So many designers now ignore those pillers of scenario design and what we have are Mcdonalds and filler like designs, barely ok and usually boring the first time around as well as forgettable and forgotten within a month or so.
 

von Marwitz

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The unit density on that map is pretty incredible. Even if every unit is at 50% strength that's a lot of squads jammed into that little area. Especially on the Russian side. -Sully
I am just happening to currently read 'Island of Fire' by Jason D. Mark. With regard to the unit density, the historical reality is quite sobering. Some regiments were in number merely a company or less throughout the fighting.

An example for the Russian 138th Rifle Division as of 14th November at 1700h:

2051 men in total, of these only 750 on the west bank of the Volga.

Active soldiers as follows:

344th Rifle Regiment:
157 men, 130 rifles, 22PPSh, 1 HMG, 4 ATR, 2 LMG

650th Rifle Regiment:
35 men, 24 rifles, 9PPSh, 1 HMG, 1 ATR, 6 MTRs

768th Rifle Regiment:
49 men, 41 rifles, 1 DShK, 5PPSh, 1 45mm ATG, 2 MTRs

230th Anti-Tank Battalion:
2 ATGs


von Marwitz
 

CTKnudsen

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So for a portion of the front from, say, the 6th to the 23rd hexrows on the RB map, was, on 14 Nov, held by roughly 25 squad-equivalents, with 3 ATG, 8 MTR (of which some were surely 50mm), 1 .50cal MG, 2 M/HMG, and 5 ATR. Of those squads, with 31 PPSh, say 4-5 squads would be considered SMG squads, the remainder rifle squads.

It is kind of mindboggling to me that pretty much anyone would consider this a perfectly reasonable force for the RB Russians to have, if a little low in strength. So RB gets the force levels right, pretty much, the only thing it could fix is to substitute "Battalion" for "Company" throughout the reinforcement charts.

Wow.
 

Justiciar

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So for a portion of the front from, say, the 6th to the 23rd hexrows on the RB map, was, on 14 Nov, held by roughly 25 squad-equivalents, with 3 ATG, 8 MTR (of which some were surely 50mm), 1 .50cal MG, 2 M/HMG, and 5 ATR. Of those squads, with 31 PPSh, say 4-5 squads would be considered SMG squads, the remainder rifle squads.

It is kind of mindboggling to me that pretty much anyone would consider this a perfectly reasonable force for the RB Russians to have, if a little low in strength. So RB gets the force levels right, pretty much, the only thing it could fix is to substitute "Battalion" for "Company" throughout the reinforcement charts.

Wow.
I would also suggest missing from this OB...are the radios to the mortars and guns across the Volga...which played an important role in helping to hold the line.

Also the numbers noted by you (and hence from Mark) are the "paper numbers" (reported strength reports)...a battle-wise commander might well not report he had 'another' HMG (read any higher level asset) in his line least it be shifted by higher HQ to somewhere else other than under his own line.
 

CTKnudsen

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I was quite intrigued to figure that Zaitsevskii Island is no more than 4-5 hexes off the RB map Eastern edge. I think the Soviets should get much more artillery, but have it be limited to offboard observers at level 2 or 3 on the Eastern edge - just enough to see to the factories, and dominate the eastern bank, but of less help in the western approaches.
 

Sparafucil3

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I would also suggest missing from this OB...are the radios to the mortars and guns across the Volga...which played an important role in helping to hold the line.

Also the numbers noted by you (and hence from Mark) are the "paper numbers" (reported strength reports)...a battle-wise commander might well not report he had 'another' HMG (read any higher level asset) in his line least it be shifted by higher HQ to somewhere else other than under his own line.
Conversely, he probably overstated his personnel strength to get more rations. -- jim
 

Justiciar

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Conversely, he probably overstated his personnel strength to get more rations. -- jim
Plausible....but then he would be tasked with holding more of the line or undertaking a mission he could execute properly given his true strength.
 

Sparafucil3

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Plausible....but then he would be tasked with holding more of the line or undertaking a mission he could execute properly given his true strength.
Most everything I have read on Stalingrad says both sides over reported for more rations. On the Russian side, there wasn't much more to hold. The gullies formed right and left limits. The lines were only ever going to be so long. The Germans however ... -- jim
 
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