Normal CC vs VBM

Fetmun

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11.8 STREET FIGHTING states:
'Any vehicle in stationary Bypass or using VBM is also subject to Street Fighting rules from any Infantry in the Bypassed obstacle of their hex.'

1. Does it mean that during Close Combat Phase (i.e. not during ATTACKERS MPh) Infantry in the ground level building Location which did not Advance to that Location would qualify for an automatic -1 Streetfighting Ambush CC DRM versus VBM AFV?

2. Would that Infantry be qualified for such - 1 Streetfighting Ambush CC DRM in the consequent next turn Close Combat Phase? (keeping in mind Melee status)
 

A_T_Great

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11.8 STREET FIGHTING states:
'Any vehicle in stationary Bypass or using VBM is also subject to Street Fighting rules from any Infantry in the Bypassed obstacle of their hex.'

1. Does it mean that during Close Combat Phase (i.e. not during ATTACKERS MPh) Infantry in the ground level building Location which did not Advance to that Location would qualify for an automatic -1 Streetfighting Ambush CC DRM versus VBM AFV?

2. Would that Infantry be qualified for such - 1 Streetfighting Ambush CC DRM in the consequent next turn Close Combat Phase? (keeping in mind Melee status)
  1. Yes
  2. Yes
 

Bill Kohler

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Follow-up remarks/questions . . .

Summarizing:
--A11 deals with CC in general.
--A11.8 deals with Streetfighting during the CCPh if a moving player's Infantry has just Advanced into a qualifying street Location that contains an enemy vehicle.
--D7.211 covers combining Streetfighting with CC Reaction Fire during the opponent's MPh, by the Defending Infantry jumping out into the street and then jumping back again.
--The penultimate sentence of A11.8 then makes a comment that vehicles in stationary Bypass or VBM are also subject to Streetfighting. (This is where my head starts to swim a little.)

Implications:
--So, via the VBM sentence of A11.8, if an Infantry unit Advances into any Location with a VBM enemy vehicle, Streetfighting can potentially occur during the immediately ensuing CCPh. And similarly, Defending Infantry can CC Reaction Fire + Streetfight an Attacker's vehicle that enters their hex via bypass. (Okay, so far so good.)
--But does the VBM sentence of A11.8 also permit units in Melee in a Location that contains a bypassing enemy vehicle to Streetfight that vehicle in the CCPh if no Advancing into that Location has occurred during the present player turn? (I assume no.) (Yes, per Klas below.)
--What if the Melee was already in place, and then the vehicle went into VBM of that Melee Location during the MPh: can the opposing Melee units Streetfight it during the forthcoming CCPh? (I assume no.) (Yes.)
--Does the A11.8/D7.211 combination permit the Attacker's Infantry units to CC Reaction Fire + Streetfight a Defender's (Motion) vehicle that happens to be in VBM of it's hex during their MPh? (I assume no: it's only the Defender who can make CC Reaction Fire attacks during a MPh.)
--Does A11.8/D7.211 permit the Defender to CC Reaction Fire + Streetfight an Attacker's stopped vehicle that doesn't move during its MPh (whether that vehicle is in VBM or in a city street)? (I assume yes.)
 
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klasmalmstrom

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A vehicle that does not spend any MP can not be the target of a defensive first fire attack (including CC RF attacks) - the only exception I can think of is from an airplane.

Units in Melee can use SF CC attacks vs a VBM vehicle - there's no advance required.

Edited: added "not".
 
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gusi

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On the Overrun Flowchart is a purple table called "Defensive fire Options with no OVR" (top right). The CC RF column shows when street fighting bonus applies, the h and g feet notes (somewhat small font).

If you follow the no overrun options it would cover the VBM and VBM freeze scenarios.
 

GeorgeBates

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--So, via the VBM sentence of A11.8, if an Infantry unit Advances into any Location with a VBM enemy vehicle, Streetfighting can potentially occur during the immediately ensuing CCPh. And similarly, Defending Infantry can CC Reaction Fire + Streetfight an Attacker's vehicle that enters their hex via bypass.
(added italics and bold for emphasis)

So any means that the conditions that define a Streetfighting-eligible location in the first sentence of 11.8 do not apply? Infantry in any building or woods hex that is being bypassed are eligible for Streetfighting DRM vs. an enemy vehicle bypassing their hex? If so,
Bad news: I have been playing this wrong my entire ASL career
Good news: More enemy AFVs gonna burn...
 

klasmalmstrom

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So any means that the conditions that define a Streetfighting-eligible location in the first sentence of 11.8 do not apply? Infantry in any building or woods hex that is being bypassed are eligible for Streetfighting DRM vs. an enemy vehicle bypassing their hex?
Q&A:

A11.8
Do the Street Fighting advantages apply against a vehicle bypassing a woods hex?
A. Yes. “Any vehicle in stationary Bypass or using VBM is also subject to Street Fighting rules from any Infantry in the Bypassed
obstacle of their hex.”
 

tailesin

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Sorry to resurrect but after reading rules A11.8, D7.2, 21,211 and the Overrun flowchart I'm getting confused. The Flowchart seems to permit something than the rules seems to not.

In my example, a Kingtiger enters in bypass in a woods hex with a british unmarked para-squad with a PIAT.

A. Can the squad fire the PIAT vs the Tiger as first fire ? And what AF would use: side or (Front,side, rear depending of dr).
B. Once the SW PIAT is marked with First fire counter, can the squad make a CC Reaction Fire with Strret fighting.
C. Having the tiger expended more than one MP's on bypass, may the now marked with First fire squad make a subsequent First fire, now with a +1.

Many thanks
 

Eagle4ty

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Sorry to resurrect but after reading rules A11.8, D7.2, 21,211 and the Overrun flowchart I'm getting confused. The Flowchart seems to permit something than the rules seems to not.

In my example, a Kingtiger enters in bypass in a woods hex with a british unmarked para-squad with a PIAT.

A. Can the squad fire the PIAT vs the Tiger as first fire ? And what AF would use: side or (Front,side, rear depending of dr).
B. Once the SW PIAT is marked with First fire counter, can the squad make a CC Reaction Fire with Strret fighting.
C. Having the tiger expended more than one MP's on bypass, may the now marked with First fire squad make a subsequent First fire, now with a +1.

Many thanks
A.1) Yes. (A bypassing vehicle is NOT conducting an OVR).
A.2) It depends on the Hit Location and the TCA of the bypassing vehicle. Since it is not an OVR if hit in the Hull it would strike the S-AF if hit in the turret the TCA would determine what aspect to use.
B. No (D7.211 However, Street Fighting CC Reaction Fire may not be attempted by a unit that is, and/or possesses a SW — (including Inherent)/Gun that is, already marked with a First/Final/Intensive/No Fire counter.).
C. No. {Note: There is no +1 DRM for conducting any form of Subsequent CC once marked with a Fire counter, even in an OVR situation, its CCV is reduced by 1 for each form of halving of FP. This may be critical in determining the effcts on the vehicle}.
 
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Koestler

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A vehicle that does not spend any MP can be the target of a defensive first fire attack (including CC RF attacks) - the only exception I can think of is from an airplane.

Units in Melee can use SF CC attacks vs a VBM vehicle - there's no advance required.
Hazardous, I know, to suggest that the Guru made a mistake, but is the word "not" missing in this answer after "can"?
 
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