Non-historical scenarios

Robin Reeve

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WaterRabbit said:
If the moderators had a fair and balanced approach they would have banned you at the same time they banned Scott
If the moderators were to have priorities in their "discilplinary" measures, I bet that your frequent tendancy to go directly and agressively personal would be taken in account.
When one wants to give lessons to others, one must be able to stand the test himself.
Speaking of "moderation", I don't think you quite know what you are speaking about.
If you have a feud against Mark, use pms.
Thanks in advance.
Robin, non Texan and not ashamed about not being one...
 

Jim McLeod

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wrongway149 said:
Yikes! Well, for those who beleive it's more art that science, I have submitted a short article to the Journal called 'Scenario Design in six easy steps'. Maybe two pages. Three, tops.

Wrongway's Rule #3 of scenario design:

Brevity counts, so keep it simple.

Pete 'that's maybe one rule too many already" Shelling
Pete, you are absolutely correct. A sixty page treatise on scenario design is, how shall we say ... excessive.

I will definitely read your two to three page article but a sixty page opus is not likely gonna' happen reading-wise.

Scenario design isn't really that hard and you often know if the scenario has legs after the first playing or two.





=Jim=
 

wrongway149

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Jim McLeod said:
I will definitely read your two to three page article but a sixty page opus is not likely gonna' happen reading-wise.

=Jim=
Mark's 60-page opus may satisfy PhD types like himself, but I learned scenario design principles from a blue-collar fellow named Bill Sisler. (Le Herrison, Directive Number 3, Le Abbe Blanche). Took him maybe 20 minutes to explain. I think he still uses the pen-and-legal pad method.
 

Gunner Scott

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wrongway149 said:
Mark's 60-page opus may satisfy PhD types like himself, but I learned scenario design principles from a blue-collar fellow named Bill Sisler. (Le Herrison, Directive Number 3, Le Abbe Blanche). Took him maybe 20 minutes to explain. I think he still uses the pen-and-legal pad method.
Hi

Gotta agree with Pete here, there really is no need for a 60 page opus on scenario design, you read the action you want to design, layout the boards, assemble the forces and eyeball the whole thing to see if it will all work as is or if you will need to adjust fire on certain aspects of your design.
Right now, I'm looking to design a fairly large opus on the battle of Vienna and saw that some of the SS tankers claim to have battled against the new JS III, do I include it in my design or not?
I think further research is needed, but I am really inclined to include the JS III just for the coolness aspect of the scenario.


Scott
 

wrongway149

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SGT Holst said:
Hi


Right now, I'm looking to design a fairly large opus on the battle of Vienna and saw that some of the SS tankers claim to have battled against the new JS III, do I include it in my design or not?
I think further research is needed, but I am really inclined to include the JS III just for the coolness aspect of the scenario.


Scott
Scott, I went through this same issue while designing "Urban Guerillas". The answer is: historically speaking, they were likely remembering IS2m, and calling these IS III just b/c they were more difficult to knock out than early IS II. Real IS III didn't fight in WWII, at least according to all the 'better' sources, like Steve Zaloga. Same with the T-44. Then gain, the SS didn't have any Stu 42 at Kursk, either.

Pete 'live and learn' Shelling
 

Gunner Scott

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wrongway149 said:
Scott, I went through this same issue while designing "Urban Guerillas". The answer is: historically speaking, they were likely remembering IS2m, and calling these IS III just b/c they were more difficult to knock out than early IS II. Real IS III didn't fight in WWII, at least according to all the 'better' sources, like Steve Zaloga. Same with the T-44. Then gain, the SS didn't have any Stu 42 at Kursk, either.

Pete 'live and learn' Shelling
I dunno, Steve Zologa was not at the battle, nor was Pitman, so I think an account by somebody actually at the battle is pretty valid.


Scott
 

The Purist

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SGT Holst said:
I dunno, Steve Zologa was not at the battle, nor was Pitman, so I think an account by somebody actually at the battle is pretty valid.
I dunno Scott,... I tend to avoid 'personal' histories as the main source as the view is often narrowed and flawed. If it can be backed up by secondary or tertiary sources so much the better, but. Still, I would go with an official account over the personal,...I just keep remembering all those Mk IVs being called Tigers. :crosseye:
 

Pitman

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Ha. Perhaps my scenario guide might not be of interest to you three, but then you all have already designed and published scenarios, so you are not its intended audience. And since none of you have read it, you are a little premature in drawing conclusions about it. Just as not everybody feels confident enough to leap right into playing ASL (as evidenced by the thousands of people who have bought it and never played it), but like the "hand holding" aspect of the ASLSK, not everybody may feel confident into just jumping into scenario design without any guidance or advice. Not everybody has a Bill Sisler living near them, either.

I think some of your expressed opinions are an example of a typical problem among ASLers that we encounter all the time, which is an unwilling to acknowledge the legitimacy of people wanting support, whether it is support for learning the game or anything else. They remind me of some of the people who argued against printing the ASLSK because people should be forced to learn the hard way. That may be okay for some, but for others it may not be the best way.

And why should anyone have to reinvent the wheel? I have profited from studying the scenarios designed by people like Pete and Scott, so why shouldn't others. When Newbie Designer comes across problem X, he may not know how to solve it. The scenario guide shows the different ways that scenario designers have dealt with problem X, so Newbie Designer can at least make informed decisions.

If you don't want it, you certainly won't have to buy it. But pooh-poohing it sight unseen is a little strange.
 

Jim McLeod

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Pitman said:
Ha. Perhaps my scenario guide might not be of interest to you three, but then you all have already designed and published scenarios, so you are not its intended audience. And since none of you have read it, you are a little premature in drawing conclusions about it.
Sixty, that is "6-0" pages Mark. If that is the length of the finished product, that says it all.

Look at it this way.

You, Pete and "der Holst" have all designed scenarios.

Mark's guide is, at this time, 60 pages in length. If one has played any of your scenarios, they may place whatever value they wish in your to be published guide.

Pete's guide is a 2-3 page article. I have played some of Pete's design's so his article already carries with it a certain cachet.

"der Holst" summed up his scenario design guide in a paragraph or two. If he wanted to flesh it out more, there may be a third paragraph.

"Eye of The Tiger"

... 'nuff said as some are wont to say.

Given the three choices available, the latter two are preferred IMHO not that your work is not good. That said, I am sure that there are those out there who will have no problem reading through a 60 page manual, I am just ot one of them. The same message can be had with far fewer words.

Pitman said:
<edit for length>

If you don't want it, you certainly won't have to buy it. But pooh-poohing it sight unseen is a little strange.
That is true and not fair.



=Jim=
 

Pitman

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That said, I am sure that there are those out there who will have no problem reading through a 60 page manual, I am just ot one of them.
I can't believe an ASLer just typed those words.
 

Gunner Scott

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Ah, but have ever expairienced the "Cringe Factor?"

Your buddy comes by with a design in hand, tons of SSR's, an order of battle that make The Last Bid look like an afternoon affair, and the scenario only has one board!!!!

Yup, that was me 15 or so years ago when I first submitted my design to Avalon Hill. Mac was really cool and wrote a personal letter back to me saying in very nice terms my scenario sucked. Brevity is the key to getting published and having a successful design.

Know your limits, if you design 10 scenarios a day, well good for you, but me, I cant do that, I have a hard enough time trying to design 2 or 3 scenarios per a year. What I'm trying to get across here is this: If the action really lights a creative fire, then design that scenario, if the Action is the same action is the same action is the same action from before, take a break from designing scenarios and just play.


Scott
 

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Jim McLeod said:
Given the three choices available, the latter two are preferred IMHO not that your work is not good. That said, I am sure that there are those out there who will have no problem reading through a 60 page manual, I am just ot one of them. The same message can be had with far fewer words.
=Jim=
I absolutely agree. Sixty pages is really too deep. I tried to get thru the 11-page dissertation on the British in J6 but couldn't. At least 5 pages of filler there. And more to come in J7? I can't wait.
 

Oliver

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Pitman said:
But pooh-poohing it sight unseen is a little strange.
FWIW, I thought the passage you posted was well written. In a similar vein as your project, a group of us have been working on a "gamer's guide" of substantial length to one of the CGs, with an eye to helping new players "get into it."
 

Robin Reeve

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Wow, 17 years necropost. A record, I believe. 👍🏻👍🏻
Five posts back, poster Jim McLeod passed away years ago.
 

Jazz

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Wow, 17 years necropost. A record, I believe. 👍🏻👍🏻
Five posts back, poster Jim McLeod passed away years ago.
Earlier on in the thread is a post from Ron Mosher (da priest) who nobody has heard or seen sign of for quite a few years now....ever since AoO came out if memory serves?

Somewhere (here? FaceBook?) there wuz a thread looking for him with a number of possible death notices that did not pan out....still MIA as far as I know?
 
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Hutch

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Last Ron sighting on GS was in 2009. George Bates and I did some searching, noted in ASL Bell Tolls. Nothing conclusive.
 

Matt Book

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Speaking of Non-Historical Scenarios, ecz's tournament pack contains a fictional invasion of Malta scenario.
 
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