Next series of Civil War ASL modules now available for order at Critical Hit

[Whiskers1123]

What am I missing here? Isn't this the Critical Hit sub forum?

 

[Justiciar]

What am I missing here? Isn't this the Critical Hit sub forum?

You missed on the main page the OP and the ---> moved arrow and move action of the mods. It wasn't in the CH folder originally.

 

[Whiskers1123]

OK. Thanks. I thought I was loosing it!

 

[Justiciar]

OK. Thanks. I thought I was loosing it!

Sure no worries...

 

[Jazz]

No problem on my end...this is a democracy.

Huh, what ever gave you that impression?

 

[olli]

This latest bunch of Civil War is another attempt by Ray to get you to spend your dollars on yet another rehash of previous ACW pack, even selling a pack for those folk that bought the 1st ones and have the counters already , guys you know the time he plays it is not new just another RR( Rays Rehashes)

 

[larrymarak]

Most of us here are lifer's. I've had several games on my library for 47 years. CH (and every other third party producer) is dependent on new blood entering the hobby, so everything old becomes new again eventually. CH starts renewing old releases within 5 years. MMP as we all know takes decades to come up with new editions of the keystones ASL modules (Not blaming the guys at MMP, for them ASL is a sideline). For CH ASL is literally the bread and butter on the table and the daughter's graduation money ( today Ray's youngest graduates) so they are highly motivated to keep new (supposedly) releases in print. Having a large product line which you MUST keep in print has killed and is still killing game companies for many years ( currently Avalanche Press is killing itself by spending all their money reprinting older out of stock releases instead of producing new titles). This is the same road that dragged down the giant game companies of the 70' s and TSR and a thousand smaller imitators. CH does continue to produce new studies in tandem not only with retitled reissues and "conversions" of historical mapped scenarios on generic board format, such as the Teutonic Terror, Bust, and Company-Pak releases.
If you want every inch of the Normandy landings, or now every inch of Stalingrad, there's only one company with the focus and commitment to bring it to us.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Keeping modules in print is good thing and making sure that consumers know that it’s a reprint is a good thing.

Not being misleading and obscure in product descriptions is a good thing. Not inflating the number of counter sheets by putting in half sheets instead of full sheets is a good thing. Not inflating the number of counter sheets by putting in identical sheets is a good thing.

Playtesting your products is a good thing.

Offering ASL that you can actually play well is a good thing, otherwise they are just pretty pieces of printed paper & cardboard that are no
more than receipts for your donation to someone’s kids college fund.

Heck, delivering quality is a good thing.

Not treating customers like idiots is a good thing.

Let’s not get confused.

 

[Sparky]

you both make excellent points. The truth about CH as I see it lays right between your posts. They do some things very well, that others should emulate. Yet on the other hand, well, lets not sugarcoat it. They have committed some sins that that should have sent Tapio (and has in many eyes) on an express elevator to hell.

@Larry. Have you actually played any of these ACW games. I'm sure CH did nice enough of a job with it. One of their strengths has been taking ASL out of ww2 and doing it rather well. Dien Bien Phu was a frickin riot to play. However in this case, even as a ACW fanatic myself I can honestly state I have as much interest in tactical simulation of ACW battles as I have being violated anally with a red hot poker. Especially considering on of the finest board game series ever IMO is the AH CGACW, and on a more detailed scale, one of the finest computer game series ever IMO was the Talonsoft's John Tiller Battleground Civil War. How much fun really would a squad level simulation of the ACW be? I just see how it could be interesting at all.

 

[larrymarak]

you both make excellent points. The truth about CH as I see it lays right between your posts. They do some things very well, that others should emulate. Yet on the other hand, well, lets not sugarcoat it. They have committed some sins that that should have sent Tapio (and has in many eyes) on an express elevator to hell.

@Larry. Have you actually played any of these ACW games. I'm sure CH did nice enough of a job with it. One of their strengths has been taking ASL out of ww2 and doing it rather well. Dien Bien Phu was a frickin riot to play. However in this case, even as a ACW fanatic myself I can honestly state I have as much interest in tactical simulation of ACW battles as I have being violated anally with a red hot poker. Especially considering on of the finest board game series ever IMO is the AH CGACW, and on a more detailed scale, one of the finest computer game series ever IMO was the Talonsoft's John Tiller Battleground Civil War. How much fun really would a squad level simulation of the ACW be? I just see how it could be interesting at all.

The new modules aren't out yet. ASL Geetysburg came out a

you both make excellent points. The truth about CH as I see it lays right between your posts. They do some things very well, that others should emulate. Yet on the other hand, well, lets not sugarcoat it. They have committed some sins that that should have sent Tapio (and has in many eyes) on an express elevator to hell.

@Larry. Have you actually played any of these ACW games. I'm sure CH did nice enough of a job with it. One of their strengths has been taking ASL out of ww2 and doing it rather well. Dien Bien Phu was a frickin riot to play. However in this case, even as a ACW fanatic myself I can honestly state I have as much interest in tactical simulation of ACW battles as I have being violated anally with a red hot poker. Especially considering on of the finest board game series ever IMO is the AH CGACW, and on a more detailed scale, one of the finest computer game series ever IMO was the Talonsoft's John Tiller Battleground Civil War. How much fun really would a squad level simulation of the ACW be? I just see how it could be interesting at all.

While I've dropped ASL for ATS in the ww2 era, I've kept the rulesbook for World War 1 and CWASL modules. I have played two scenarios in ASL Culps Hill with a gaming buddy. It really is a matter of scenario design. I've seen some of the larger Gettysburg scenarios, but the look daunting. Regiments are more involved to command than company sized forces. ACWASL plays faster because there are fewer unit types. Many types of artillery, a couple flavors of cavalry, multiple infantry arms, and cold steel. The historical maps were quite an attraction..as you study them and slowly you sink into the actual terrain of the battlefield. The Geo series of ACWASL modules will lack this kind of topographic realism, and this may weaken the series. CH was at a crossroads.....do full historical battlefields..Shiloh, Antietam, Murfreesboro, etc, or to follow the traditional ASL geomorphic pattern. They're giving the Avalon Hill approach a try.

 

[Sparky]

The command and control aspect might be really interesting, something lacking in ASL, something me and my father started to tackle with Berlin as the size of that revised and expanded HASL ballooned to, umm, historical proportions haha. I'd actually be curious to see how it was modeled. Other than the design notions, and pure curiosity, I really do have little interest in ACWASL but even if I did I wouldn't touch geo ACWASL with a 20 foot pole, so if that is any clue, CH likely took the wrong turn to Albuquerque at that crossroads. Then again, as a former reenacter myself, there are few things as passionate and fanatical as ACW hardcases who know the ground they fought upon, not just the big battles but all the little ones as well. I know for myself I'd settle no more for generic terrain than I would for generic units but what do I know. He'll probably sell a boatload of them.

 

[Tuomo]

Most of us here are lifer's. I've had several games on my library for 47 years. CH (and every other third party producer) is dependent on new blood entering the hobby, so everything old becomes new again eventually. CH starts renewing old releases within 5 years. MMP as we all know takes decades to come up with new editions of the keystones ASL modules (Not blaming the guys at MMP, for them ASL is a sideline). For CH ASL is literally the bread and butter on the table and the daughter's graduation money ( today Ray's youngest graduates) so they are highly motivated to keep new (supposedly) releases in print. Having a large product line which you MUST keep in print has killed and is still killing game companies for many years ( currently Avalanche Press is killing itself by spending all their money reprinting older out of stock releases instead of producing new titles). This is the same road that dragged down the giant game companies of the 70' s and TSR and a thousand smaller imitators. CH does continue to produce new studies in tandem not only with retitled reissues and "conversions" of historical mapped scenarios on generic board format, such as the Teutonic Terror, Bust, and Company-Pak releases.
If you want every inch of the Normandy landings, or now every inch of Stalingrad, there's only one company with the focus and commitment to bring it to us.

Uh. Huh.

Gullible. Obtuse. Disingenuous. These are things your post calls to mind.

CH does "ASL Compatible" things so there's a place here for that, but don't for a second think that you can whitewash all the garbage and not be called on it. Congratulations to Ray's daughter, but don't make CH sound like The Waltons. What about all the families who lost THEIR children's graduation money when paying ridiculous prices for CH stuff?

Be here. That's fine. But stay a lot closer to truthful and you won't get pushback.

 

[Robin Reeve]

I never realized that CH was for charity!

 

[Bob Walters]

Civil War weapons and tactics just do not adapt well to the ASL game system. Unless the boards and timeframe are altered I do not see it being at all historically accurate.

 

[larrymarak]

The command and control aspect might be really interesting, something lacking in ASL, something me and my father started to tackle with Berlin as the size of that revised and expanded HASL ballooned to, umm, historical proportions haha. I'd actually be curious to see how it was modeled. Other than the design notions, and pure curiosity, I really do have little interest in ACWASL but even if I did I wouldn't touch geo ACWASL with a 20 foot pole, so if that is any clue, CH likely took the wrong turn to Albuquerque at that crossroads. Then again, as a former reenacter myself, there are few things as passionate and fanatical as ACW hardcases who know the ground they fought upon, not just the big battles but all the little ones as well. I know for myself I'd settle no more for generic terrain than I would for generic units but what do I know. He'll probably sell a boatload of them.

I agree that HACWASL is the way to go. I
have enjoyed generic civil war games, but the historical battlefield is the thing. The Gettysburg approach of their initial releases made sense because anyone who is willing to play ASL in the black powder era recognizes Gettysburg. What do you think would be the second most popular battle to cover HACWASL?

 

[larrymarak]

Which American Revolution battle? Saratoga? ( remember French and Indian War ASL is already in development).

 

[Sparky]

Civil War weapons and tactics just do not adapt well to the ASL game system. Unless the boards and timeframe are altered I do not see it being at all historically accurate.

I don't think the problem Bob is adaptation. The problem could be what makes that adaptation so easy. Subtract all the fun goodies of ASL and go back, way back to SL and delete the SW and you have a basic infantry v. infantry combat system. ASL could be thought to break down post ww2, which isn't true of course, you just have to have a deft creative touch in the design, but prior to ww2. No compatibility shouldn't be an issue, especially for CH who have spent more time outside of ww2, and much of it successfully IMO, than anyone has.

What could be the problem is that it simply wouldn't be interesting which is got me yakking with Larry. The ACW was on the tactical level, less about tactics, more about pure slaughter until one side blinks or 'fails their MC' and runs for the hills haha. Interesting to study, less fun I would suspect to game out. That is why few IIRC really have tried it at such a small scale, the most fun are at the regimental level. Get lower than that and it is a trip to gameplay snoozeville IMO.

 

[Sparky]

What do you think would be the second most popular battle to cover HACWASL?

hmm. Best to cover, Shiloh. Lots of back and forth, and hellish terrain. Would put those C&C concepts to good use.
but that isn;t what you asked huh. Most popular?

Times haven't changed, the ANV still is more sexy and popular than anything that happened out in the west. I'd say Fredricksburg, that map could be a doozy. Marye's Heights? Even toss in some street fighting through downtown Fredricksburg. As a bonus, toss in some 1864 scenarios when Barksdales couple regiments gave Sedgwick's 3+ division one hell of bloody nose before getting overrun over the same ground as the first battle.

 

[Paul_RS]

Most of us here are lifer's. I've had several games on my library for 47 years. CH (and every other third party producer) is dependent on new blood entering the hobby, so everything old becomes new again eventually. CH starts renewing old releases within 5 years. MMP as we all know takes decades to come up with new editions of the keystones ASL modules (Not blaming the guys at MMP, for them ASL is a sideline). For CH ASL is literally the bread and butter on the table and the daughter's graduation money ( today Ray's youngest graduates) so they are highly motivated to keep new (supposedly) releases in print. Having a large product line which you MUST keep in print has killed and is still killing game companies for many years ( currently Avalanche Press is killing itself by spending all their money reprinting older out of stock releases instead of producing new titles). This is the same road that dragged down the giant game companies of the 70' s and TSR and a thousand smaller imitators. CH does continue to produce new studies in tandem not only with retitled reissues and "conversions" of historical mapped scenarios on generic board format, such as the Teutonic Terror, Bust, and Company-Pak releases.
If you want every inch of the Normandy landings, or now every inch of Stalingrad, there's only one company with the focus and commitment to bring it to us.

It’s your money, my friend and you are free to spend it however you choose. I choose not to spend any more of my money on CH products for reasons that have been debated at length elsewhere on the forum.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

OK. Allowing for the reputed zeal of a convert or former sinner, here is my take. I used to be a former CH purchaser, I even bought some of their first reprints of what I already had (Berlin, SCW, KW), as for those few their production values had sufficiently improved, especially their counters and I felt it worth it. However CH got to a point where it got just too much, at least with MMP you knew what was a fairly straight reprint or not.

I never had illusions that CH stuff was as thoroughly playtested as others. In the early days more likely to be playtested, but I viewed CH as "cheap and cheerful", a bit hit or miss at times. Over time I felt them less playtested and definitely not cheap.

Then there became the question of applicability. By the end of WW1 the squad or at least the platoon became the unit of maneuver so ASL would be a suitable mechanism. Even some of the sparser fronts (Africa, ME, Caucasus, parts of the Eastern Front), due to lower densities, might be suitable. But for most of WW1, especially the Western Front, the company was the maneuver unit, making squads being far from the way to represent the battles without heavy rules additions. There were a few pre-WW1 clashes like the Boer War that might suit ASL, but they are few and far between.

ASL, like others like GMT's GBoH, are simply systems used to portray combat at a particular time. As technology evolved, evolutions and tactics changed, the only common factor was the involvement of individual humans and they underwent often totally different training depending upon the weapon technology. I would no more be inclined to use ASL as the basis for an ACW or Roman battle than I would use a lawnmower to make a breakfast smoothie. Use the best tool set available for the job.