Newbie Question - Being fired at Moving into a building

[Warrck]

Hi all,

a real newbie question for ASLSK#1, but one which I cant find an answer for.

A squad moving into a building expends two MF in their movement phase.

Does this then subject them to Defensive First Fire (for the first MF) and Subsequent First Fire (for the 2nd MF)?

Cheers

Warrick

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Yes sir. Provided there’s no other friendly unit closer to the firer that is doing the Subsequent Fire.

 

[Warrck]

Thank you HKW (BTW thank you for your site - it has been very useful).

So second question is are they then also subject to RFP in the Subsequent Fire as well?

This is the example from the Retaking Vierville scenario (Im using Vassal so I can screenshot and keep notes ). Am I playing correctly or way off the mark?

Movement Phase –move in a stack at K10, move to L9, L8 and then into building at L7. Paratroopers at L5 decided to shoot at at them. Now my reading of the rules is that the Paras get a First Fire(FF) and a Subsequent First Fire(SFF) because the Germans expend two MF in that building (rule 3.3.1).

So First Fire (FF) by Paras at 6/+2 (+3 TEM for building and -1 FFNAM) ; roll a 8 +2 =10 = No Effect. Mark Paras with FF and leave a 2 Residual Fire Power (RFP) marker.
Then for SFF – Paras fire at half FP (3.5) with 2 RFP =5.5 rounded down to 4 Table so 4/+3 for TEM; roll 10 +3 = 13 so No Effect.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

Thank you HKW (BTW thank you for your site - it has been very useful).

So second question is are they then also subject to RFP in the Subsequent Fire as well?

This is the example from the Retaking Vierville scenario (Im using Vassal so I can screenshot and keep notes ). Am I playing correctly or way off the mark?

Movement Phase –move in a stack at K10, move to L9, L8 and then into building at L7. Paratroopers at L5 decided to shoot at at them. Now my reading of the rules is that the Paras get a First Fire(FF) and a Subsequent First Fire(SFF) because the Germans expend two MF in that building (rule 3.3.1).

So First Fire (FF) by Paras at 6/+2 (+3 TEM for building and -1 FFNAM) ; roll a 8 +2 =10 = No Effect. Mark Paras with FF and leave a 2 Residual Fire Power (RFP) marker.
Then for SFF – Paras fire at half FP (3.5) with 2 RFP =5.5 rounded down to 4 Table so 4/+3 for TEM; roll 10 +3 = 13 so No Effect.

You are very kind sir. Thanks for even being at my blog!

1. Residual Fire do not come into play until the Germans start doing something else in the hex (say try to throw Smoke if MF allows). The 2 MF are spent on the same movement.
2. When and if Residual Fire come into play, they are not added to other attacks. They are resolved separately.

 

[Warrck]

Excellent, thank you - had suspected that but just needed to clarify.

On with the battle!

 

[Robin Reeve]

Note that those First Fire and Subsequent First Fire opportunities are per Fire Group.
Another defender can make the two shots - even after the first one First and Subsequent First Fired.

 

[Baetis]

Wow, I learned something new. I assumed it was per hex/per action. Smoke is an action as is moving. What you're all say is that it's per MF. So moving into woods, buildings (any 2+ space) allows an attack per MF (First Fire, then Final Fire). I also believe that Final Fire is treated as subsequent fire (when it follows First Fire by the same unit) and is subject to NMC based on the IFT DR. So, it gets chancey for the attacker to continue firing. Right?

 

[Eagle4ty]

Wow, I learned something new. I assumed it was per hex/per action. Smoke is an action as is moving. What you're all say is that it's per MF. So moving into woods, buildings (any 2+ space) allows an attack per MF (First Fire, then Final Fire). I also believe that Final Fire is treated as subsequent fire (when it follows First Fire by the same unit) and is subject to NMC based on the IFT DR. So, it gets chancey for the attacker to continue firing. Right?

Gets a little weird if the moving unit is using Assault Movement to enter such terrain and then is broken by the shot predicated upon his 1st MF expenditure. Now since the unit is broken, it is no longer using Assault Movement and -1 DRM for FFNAM in addition to the TEM would apply on the S1F shot based upon the 2nd MF spent. Additionally, any other units firing on the moving unit would now be entitled to the -1 FFNAM DRM as well for either a shot based upon the 1st MF spent and/or the 2nd MF even though the 2MF cost to enter the building/woods is a single combined action and purportedly occurring with all fire simultaneously. (An ASL Space-Time thingy).

 

[Baetis]

And ASLSK doesn't have enough complexity, eh? In your example, does the TEM apply to all shots? It just the FFNAM penalty that kicks in due to unit breaking.

 

[Eagle4ty]

And ASLSK doesn't have enough complexity, eh? In your example, does the TEM apply to all shots? It just the FFNAM penalty that kicks in due to unit breaking.

The TEM would apply in all shots (just bringing out the aspect of the application of FFNAM should he be broken while utilizing A-Mv).

 

[Baetis]

Excellent. Thanks for the tidbits. If you care, I've posted some ASLSK sniper rules I'm toying with. I like them from the full game and it wasn't terribly difficult to recreate them. Could throw play balance (I'm testing that now) but I've never been one to care about balance. Real war situations don't play by those rules.