New scenario: Lock of Finland (Finlands Lås)

Rhett

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I do not post much here, more a lurker, but here is the scenario RH1 my regular opponent and I made from one of the battles in the Continuation War, Finland 1944.

Read about the battle here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tienhaara


We would like that a couple of fresh eyes looked at it, even played it. Are there any errors or ambiguities on the scenario card ? What about the balance ?


Hannu and I have played this scenario about 12 times, and have in the process weeded out many problems. We have also come to understand how hard it is to balance a scenario, but hope our one is now playable.


Notice this:
  • The Victory Conditions say 'immediately'. Immediately is what it means, even before First Fire and of course at once if a Russian MMC is rallied on the path.
  • Check out the rules for Boats (E5), especially the rule when to use the -2 DRM for Hazardous Movement (E5.531).
  • Yes, there are 2 (two) OBA modules in the game. They both have a Pre-Registered hex. Don't forget the special abilities of such hexes have, including Barrage (E12).
Even with two OBA modules, it is easy to overestimate their effect (because of E5.5). Expect the average Russian losses to be about 4 MMC and 1 SMC in the lake, depending of course on how the Russians enter.



Have fun and enjoy this scenario as we did.


Edit 29 september: new RH1 with corrections added (as given in this thread).
 

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jrv

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If the Soviets dig a foxhole, is it normal or of the +1 variety? If the Finns dig a foxhole, is it normal or of the +1 variety?

JR
 

Gunner Scott

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A nice effort indeed but..........I think the Arty might be a bit much for a small scenario such as this.

Scott
 

Rhett

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All Foxholes are the +1 variety, either OB or dug. It has to be clarified.... Thanks.
 

Rhett

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A nice effort indeed but..........I think the Arty might be a bit much for a small scenario such as this.

Scott
Believe me, we though that too. So initially we had 23 Russian squads, later 19, now 16. You will be surprised how ineffective OBA is in Water against Boats.
 

Gunner Scott

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Have not looked at the scenario closely, but I think if I was the Finns, and I can see the victory area (the path), I would if possible be laying down harassing fire with the 120mm OBA to keep the Reds out of the victory area. I could be wrong on how I am perceiving your scenario but that's what I'm thinking at first glance.


Believe me, we though that too. So initially we had 23 Russian squads, later 19, now 16. You will be surprised how ineffective OBA is in Water against Boats.
 

Rhett

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Have not looked at the scenario closely, but I think if I was the Finns, and I can see the victory area (the path), I would if possible be laying down harassing fire with the 120mm OBA to keep the Reds out of the victory area. I could be wrong on how I am perceiving your scenario but that's what I'm thinking at first glance.
In general, I would say that if you opt to use the artillery inland, the far left and right side of the map is best, for there at least there is some LOS. Inside the forest, the LOS is limited to adjecent hexes. It is our experience that inland artillery is just as dangerous to the Finns as to the Russians .... and placing artillery inland allows basically the whole Russian force to land .... you can lose 15,5 Russian squads and still win with a HS ....

.... but it is not our intention to tell you about our experinces with this scenario, but rather to listen to what you guys say after playing it.

Thank you.
 

larth

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Nice scenario on a key battle in 1944!

Comments (and really nitpicking with some of these):
Change spelling of "Viborg" to "Vyborg" (Swedish like ASL scenario 170 - same unit same day!) or "Viipuri" (Finnish)

Reading up a little in "Krigsvägar - Finlandssvenska Förband 1939-1940" (Lars Stenström), page 219+ it is mentioned that Marttinen played a large role (IIRC this is also shown in one of the Finnish war movies) and one of the 8-0 could be exchanged for a 10-0 to represent this without affecting the balance too much. (Radio) phones seems to be more commonly used than radios, and maybe allowing the exchange of a radio for a phone would be ok.

I think SSR 3 can be shortened to

3. After set-up, each Finnish units takes a TC. If the TC is failed, the unit starts the game broken but not DM.

Question on that: currently SSR 3 says the only possible consequence is that the unit starts broken - does it loose HIP if so?

Another cool pic: http://www.ww2incolor.com/finnish_forces/155133.html (the one you have is great).
 

Rhett

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Thank you for the kind comments, Larth.

Nice scenario on a key battle in 1944!

Comments (and really nitpicking with some of these):
Change spelling of "Viborg" to "Vyborg" (Swedish like ASL scenario 170 - same unit same day!) or "Viipuri" (Finnish)
Actually, Viborg is the Swedish name for the city. Vyborg is the English name. Viipuri is of course the Finnish name.

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viborg,_Ryssland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyborg
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viipuri

I admit there is an unlucky mixture of English and Swedish. The name of the scenario should be The Lock of Finland. But the Swedish 'Finlands Lås' perhaps makes the scenario more exotic (?)

Reading up a little in "Krigsvägar -
Finlandssvenska Förband 1939-1940" (Lars Stenström), page 219+ it is mentioned that Marttinen played a large role (IIRC this is also shown in one of the Finnish war movies) and one of the 8-0 could be exchanged for a 10-0 to represent this without affecting the balance too much.
Our main sources were the books Karelska Näset 1944 Nordens öde avgörs by Johan Lupander & Jan-Christian Lupander and Tienhaara Finlands Lås by Göran Westerlund.

http://www.antikvaari.fi/naytatuote.asp?id=1191296

The second book is only about the battle, and gives an enormous amount of detailed information. I am grateful to Hannu for having found this book. Else, I have also relied on information directly from Finnish sources (Hannu is a Finn).


(Radio) phones seems to be more commonly used than radios, and maybe allowing the exchange of a radio for a phone would be ok.
If you by phone mean Field Phones (C1.23), actually we had a discussion about to chose Radio or Field Phone. Hannu found out that by 1944 the Finnish army had as a rule wireless Radios, which of course is better that relying on Field Phones that can not be moved.

(I think SSR 3 can be shortened to

3. After set-up, each Finnish units takes a TC. If the TC is failed, the unit starts the game broken but not DM.
Yes, I guess so. Actually the phrasing is taken from one of the SSR in ASL E Hill 621.

Question on that: currently SSR 3 says the only possible consequence is that the unit starts broken - does it loose HIP if so?
Yes, it loses HIP too. A12.3 "HIP is a form of concealment ..." and A12.14 "When a concealed unit breaks or becomes Wounded/Reduced it loses its '?'".

Another cool pic: http://www.ww2incolor.com/finnish_forces/155133.html (the one you have is great).
Thank you. The pic in the scenario is taken from Karelska Näset 1944 page 202. The caption reads: "Lastbilar med överskeppningsbåter rullar in i Viborg. Dessa skulle inom kort sättas in vid anfallen över Kivisillansalmi". [Trucks with transport vessels roll into Vyborg. In a short time they were committed to the attack over Kivisillansalmi]
 

Hannu

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Nice scenario on a key battle in 1944!

Comments (and really nitpicking with some of these):
Change spelling of "Viborg" to "Vyborg" (Swedish like ASL scenario 170 - same unit same day!) or "Viipuri" (Finnish)

Reading up a little in "Krigsvägar - Finlandssvenska Förband 1939-1940" (Lars Stenström), page 219+ it is mentioned that Marttinen played a large role (IIRC this is also shown in one of the Finnish war movies) and one of the 8-0 could be exchanged for a 10-0 to represent this without affecting the balance too much. (Radio) phones seems to be more commonly used than radios, and maybe allowing the exchange of a radio for a phone would be ok.

I think SSR 3 can be shortened to

3. After set-up, each Finnish units takes a TC. If the TC is failed, the unit starts the game broken but not DM.

Question on that: currently SSR 3 says the only possible consequence is that the unit starts broken - does it loose HIP if so?

Another cool pic: http://www.ww2incolor.com/finnish_forces/155133.html (the one you have is great).
Marttinen was not taking part on the front line battles but leading the whole battle in his command post, so changing one Finnish 8-0 to a 10-0 leader in this scenario would not be a relevant decision.
 

Justiciar

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Yes, I guess so. Actually the phrasing is taken from one of the SSR in ASL E Hill 621.
Phrasing has improved since the days of Hill 621. Lars' suggestion is a good one.

Also in the Finn OB title section it would be "Companies" plural as you list 2. or "..9th Company and 12th Company" The latter is better IMO.

Probably better as Concealment Terrain...capital T.

Russian OB section

"...south edge, some, all or none may enter..."

No idea on the Russian regiment in question?
 

Rhett

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Phrasing has improved since the days of Hill 621. Lars' suggestion is a good one.
Well, as long as the text can not be misunderstood. Let us just call it my homage to Hill 621 ....

Also in the Finn OB title section it would be "Companies" plural as you list 2. or "..9th Company and 12th Company" The latter is better IMO.
I go for 9th and 12th Companies. Thank you.

Probably better as Concealment Terrain...capital T.
Yep, I agree. You also find it as 'Concealment Terrain' in the Index & Glossary.

Russian OB section

"...south edge, some, all or none may enter..."

No idea on the Russian regiment in question?
This is a tough one. Rarely do you find detailed descriptions of Russian units. We could certainly not find more detail than the 90th Infantry Division. I don't know to what degree the Russians recorded such information, or if it is just a question of having access to original Russian sources that have never been translated.
 

Justiciar

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This is a tough one. Rarely do you find detailed descriptions of Russian units. We could certainly not find more detail than the 90th Infantry Division. I don't know to what degree the Russians recorded such information, or if it is just a question of having access to original Russian sources that have never been translated.
Errr, incorrect.

You should access AMVAS' Rkka site here: http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/

He has the regiments to division for the Russian OB throughout the war. He may also have maps that show what regiments were involved in that battle and finally, for a fee, he will access the Russian archives and find you the regimental or battalion level reports for the battle if they survive and are unclassified, for this battle I bet they are. I realize this is an investment you may not wish to enter given this is a geo-scenario, but it can be done. Trust me I have done it...ie for...KGS.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Russian OB:
"enter on Turn 1, 2 and 3 in boats along the south edge. Some, all or no units may enter each turn:"

This text can be shortened to:
"enter on Turn 1, 2, and/or 3 in boats along the south edge:"
 

larth

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Rhett, sorry for the typo on the Swedish/English name; I meant that spelling was different from the one used in scenario 170.
Hannu, the text in the book mentioned gave the impression he was part of it, if not disregard the suggestion.
 

Rhett

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After some more digging, Hannu found that the Soviet 90th division consisted of:

19 Inf. Regiment
173 Inf. Regiment
286 Inf. Regiment
96 Art. Regiment

(source: Tienhaara Finlands Lås by Göran Westerlund, page 33)

We have not found what regiment(s) attacked the sector of the 9th/12th Companies on 23 June.

This information is of course interesting, but irrelevant for the scenario itself.

I did visit http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/ but found no information.
 

xenovin

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I've got lucky a few times searching in Russian. Google translate is your friend!
 

morgan kane

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Planning to play RH1, just one question SSR 5:

The Finns receive one module of 120+mm OBA and one module of 80+mm MTR OBA. Both modules can fire only HE and both have one Pre-Registered hex.

Any specific reason why the 80 mm OBA is specified as MTR? Was the word battalion before MTR left out by mistake?

/Morgan
 

Michael Dorosh

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Glad this got bumped, I like the look of the scenario and this is something I would be interested in playing. I'll add it to my long list. I'm glad to see it entered on the archive, but sad to see no playings. Has anyone else tried this? I'd be interested in an AAR.
 

Rhett

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Wow. I visit here so rarely and then I see my old post bumped.

I am happy to see interest in our RH scenarios. We will in a few months time release RH4 (1939 Finland) and RH5 (1940 Norway).

Any specific reason why the 80 mm OBA is specified as MTR? Was the word battalion before MTR left out by mistake?
Yes, the 80 mm OBA was the battalion mortars. I guess the correct designation is 70+mm/80++mm battalion mortar OBA (C1.22). I just used 80+mm MTR OBA because this is how I have seen it mentioned on other scenario cards. In my opinion, to make an ASL scenario card understandable, it is very important to follow all the conventions that exist for making it.

Has anyone else tried this?
The two artillery modules (or artillery in general) may be offsetting to many. It has to do with the randomness of it and the - let us be honset - complicated rules. But like anything else, once learned (or refreshed) the artillery rules are no big deal. It is vital to reduced the number of Russians before they land. The artillery can also be used inland but at the risk of hitting the Finns too.
 
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