New Map (playtest version)

M.Koch

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I like the feel of it a lot - looks like a real place. Eastern front-like.

I don't like slopes either, just because they cause guys to scratch their heads, flip through the rules, delay the game. TMI.
Looks like a Kolchose for sure...more an industrial farm complex.
Very good design indeed. I like the large grainfields and the orchards surounded by the walls.
 

Sparafucil3

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What would be cool would be a slope that points to a small depression or "down-hill" side. As it is, all slopes create is a "bump" and not a "divot". Otherwise, Slopes are cool and they are not all that tough. If we used them more, they would get easier. If people don't like them, they can easily play without the rule (although what affect that had on balance would be their fault). -- jim
 

wrongway149

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What would be cool would be a slope that points to a small depression or "down-hill" side. As it is, all slopes create is a "bump" and not a "divot". Otherwise, Slopes are cool and they are not all that tough. If we used them more, they would get easier. If people don't like them, they can easily play without the rule (although what affect that had on balance would be their fault). -- jim
On this board, just stuck in the wheatfield, I don't see a huge impact most of the time. They change things along roads.
 

Tuomo

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The slopes are fine since they seem to define some physically-sensible higher-ground, but yeah, they do need to be darker.

Yeah, I agree the walls are just a *bit* too thick.

I guess I don't like the choke point around the swamp. Any time you make a choke point 1-hex-wide, you're in for trouble, IMO. That hex is gonna get boresighted, residual'd, etc etc etc. Honestly, I'd consider lowering the stream one hex just to give you more space there. Or else reduce the swamp to just hex M3.

Sorry to toss in a negative note - otherwise it's a beauty :)
 

Bob Miller

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I like what slopes add to the game but I can see the logic as to why some people have issues with them. Best use of slopes is minimal in application and for the map designer to avoid their application where reality arguements can be made against them.

For example; D18 and and D19 are perfect. A little ridge is created that sees over the nearby grain.

Reality problem exists with C10 and C11. C10 is directly upslope to grain in the lower number "C" row, I'll call this facing north. Thus grain in C9 and C8 do not present a hinderence. C11 is not upslope "looking" north and would be hindered by any grain in C9 and C8. BUUUTTTTTT C10 and C11 are equal in height. Why the difference in these two hexes seeing unhindered looking north?

Perhaps one could make the claim that C10 creates a "plateau" effect for C11 but I think the initial designers of the slope rules wanted to avoid that.

Still please continue to use slopes but use them very sparingly to avoid most of the logical reality arguements concerning their application to los.
 

Fort

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Well, if all the new boards had slopes and the players actually learned the slope rules we wouldn't have this problem any more now would we? :)


Fort,

How many of these boards are going to be in AP6? Will the one above be included?
I agree totally Rob, and want slopes included in all maps where appropriate...at least maps I design. I think they add more realistic hillsides as well as more realistic terrain undulations. How many hills are actually series of terraced plateaus? With slopes you can make as much of a hillside visible from lower elevations as needed to depict a realistic terrain feature. Slopes don't always need to be as numerous as KGP, but a scattering in well-thought out places makes for a much more aesthetically pleasing as well as tactically challenging layout.
For the folks who don't care for slopes...try them in small doses like these boards offer and then get back to me.

Thanks for listening,

Fort

P.S. 3 boards in AP6...1-3(a&b)....this one is for the next AP that FKM does for MMP, as well as one called "Brushy Mtn" for now, and one more river bend board.

This is CK's rough sketch of Brusy mtn on the left...notice the slopes...they are very important to the overall board.



P.P.S Tom, the walls will be more normal looking in the finished product...this is just a 1st playtest version of the 'collective farm' map.
 

Fort

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OK so hate was a strang word, I do not dislike Slopes as much as OBA:smoke:

Seriously though I think that the slope rules would have to go out for a free download or something (one page of rules for Chapter E maybe) if they are going to be included in offical products on non-HASL maps. Just my two pennies and really it would not be that much work.

Though I am stoked about this product. The scenarios looked real cool and I love maps.

Peace

Roger
The Silo (storage tank rules) are not in the main rules either. ;)
 

footsteps

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This is CK's rough sketch of Brusy mtn on the left...notice the slopes...they are very important to the overall board.
Slopes on hill hex slopes. That's a mind-bender.

I notice that this new river board is again top-left to bottom-right, like the first one. What about making it bottom-left to top-right instead?
 

Fort

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Slopes on hill hex slopes. That's a mind-bender.

I notice that this new river board is again top-left to bottom-right, like the first one. What about making it bottom-left to top-right instead?
Yeah, that river bend board is what eventually turned into board 3...so it's already done. The river bend in the next AP is exactly as you describe...running from bottom left to top right.
 

dlazov

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Perhaps someone with a lot of experience and with graphic depictions can create a good article for these situations.

At my last local gaming session during our play testing of a scenario and new maps, we were discussing how in 'reality' the slopes were supposed to be. I think we were still both a little unsure of our interpretations.
 

WaterRabbit

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Well they will at least need the slope rule in AP6. Make 'em a page in Chapter E is what I feel is the best thing to do. So many HASLs use them, might as well add the page to the RB.

Peace

Roger
DO NOT place the slope rules in Chapter E!!!!

They belong in Chapter B as they are terrain.
 

Houlie

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Two suggestions...

1) maybe run a road into one or two of the main buildings? A Factory is always nice, esp for setup of OT vehicles, etc..
This a good idea and would represent a barn-type structure nicely.
 

WaterRabbit

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That's why I asked, because the images I find are "light stone" walls with wooden roofs. The large stone building on the map seems out of place, but I am not an expert. It didn't "look" European to me either. That's why I was wondering if it was based upon a battlefield or historical location.
 

MrP

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You can SSR them out; considerably more annoying to SSR them in.
Annoying if you're a visual person like me. If they're on the board, I find it hard to visual any SSR changes anyway, just the way I'm wired I guess.

I still hate slopes tho :)
 

rdw5150

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DO NOT place the slope rules in Chapter E!!!!

They belong in Chapter B as they are terrain.
A lot of chapter E belongs elsewhere:clown:

Wherever it goes is not a big deal, but the point remains, if they are going in an AP on non-HASL boards, there needs to be a rules page.

Peace

Roger
 

janusz.maxe

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Slopes work well if you consider them just a air cushion, that a unit can stand on, but that have no effect whatsoever if noone stands there.
Then again, I haven't thought of the situation when a hindrance is upslope. Then it gets really weird. Many types of hindrace talks about same-level LOS. Does the grain dissapear if firer+target are both lvl0 but some grain is lvl0,75 to the firer only? I've played with them in several campaigns, but in this situation common sence is out the window. Rules must be checked and read carefully, slowing down play

But the bit about the slope TEM is really strange, and come into play very sparingly and sometimes almost by accident. That slope hexsides can give +1TEM, when you cannot lie on the "down" side of a crest and get any TEM (like in a gully), is a contradiction. Just game mechanics and chrome, but not a very interesting crome addition for me.

Janusz
 
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