New Kind Of Urban Geo-maps

CDT LUPPO

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hello gents !

i'm on a little project of urban geo-maps...
...and i'm seeking positives advices/critics :

at the beginning the SL system maps : no 1 to no 15 : an abstraction to represent a wide variety of terrains on a wide variety of countries : ok !

after that : asl and Hasl : the tendency is to have a more precise representation of urban/village terrain :to cite a few :
- black bars
- kgp
- abtf
- rules 31 integrated officialy in the chap B
- notes for rules 31
- wide blvd
- the block concept
etc...

so what would you think of a serie of 2/3 new kind of urban map to depict more precisely what is a :

- big european village
- small european town
- part of a big european city

the general idea is to :

-make a distinction between : small steet / regular street / boulvard

- (small / big houses) / small-big buildings : (for stacking purpose)

- make an extensive use of black bars
- .........................blocks concept
-..........................walls
- determine an alternate way to check los ( as for vs bypass/snapshot)

- use of an alternate hex size : more than the regulars ones but less than the deluxes hexes.

etc etc...

any idea / comment welcome !

one problem is : how to handle a narrow street in the middle of an hex (not on an hexside)?
 

Sgt. Przybylo

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CDT LUPPO said:
one problem is : how to handle a narrow street in the middle of an hex (not on an hexside)?
Question: why would the middle of the hex be needed? Is there some situation that CAN'T be handled by using the hexside? I guess the point of my question is: be careful of adding unnecessary complexity. If there is a situation that needs to be addressed by using the hex fine, but don't add it "just because".
 

paulkenny

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CDT LUPPO said:
- (small / big houses) / small-big buildings : (for stacking purpose)
Dont go there, additional "chrome" that would add needless complexity
 

Houlie

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Ditto to what Paul says: don't go there. I appreciate the desire to make elements of ASL as accurate as possible, but playability invariably suffers (in some cases tremendously).
 

'Ol Fezziwig

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CDT LUPPO said:
one problem is : how to handle a narrow street in the middle of an hex (not on an hexside)?
the best way would be to have the buildings on either side of the street depicted into the middle of the hex, leaving the bypass portion only a road depiction. Remembering the narrow streets are treated as a bypass action for vehicles.
 

Petros

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Luppo,
Any geoboard discussion always draws me in! Let me throw my comments in.
- If you are planning to design new geoboards and hope to see them actually published, then the terrain must conform to the standard ASL terrain choices presented in the ASL rulebook. Otherwise, players will not know how to use the terrain. Hence, you are stuck with regular or narrow roads with the geoboards.
- That said, there are ways to creatively use the standard terrain choices in new ways which do not conflict with the existing rules. This is the 'design for effect' idea we discussed. (Brush can be used to represent overgrown grainfields, Hedges can be used to represent wood fences or even natural vegitation, Orchards for a light stand of trees, etc.)
- I agree that we need more village and city terrain boards generally. Our choices are very limited for example concerning large villages as you mention. Our small village choices are limited also, especially in regard to Russian villages. (incidentally, 2 of the 6 boards that are ear-marked for the AP series are village boards - one a sizable Normandy village, another a Russian type village). We are relatively better equipped with larger city boards, though there is a lack of industrial, or battle-scarred city boards which I'd like to see.
Don
 

purdyrc

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What I would like to see are more "two-pack" boards that go together like in High Ground. I like the way that only three sides of the boards are geo, while the other side is designed to mate up with its counterpart on the matching board.

I would like to see action packs like this with the city boards included there. These new boards would still be geo on three sides, but the "inner" edge would mate to the other board in the pack (or other new boards you develop if this turned into a series). That way, you could depict wider city areas and industrial settings without being limited to having the roads and woods hexes have to match up in the center.

I think this same idea could be applied to desert and PTO boards as well.

- Rick
 

Petros

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Rick,
In order to keep this comment about a double geoboard into this threads' original context, which it should stay within, can we think about a city double-board in terms of Luppo's plan to produce new, more realistic looking city boards?
If this is the way we view your comment, then we can ask you what sorts of realistic city terrain requires not being interrupted by the various stock roads and woods hexes and half-hexes that border the geoboards lengthwise? (I agree that this border terrain is limiting - but it's not a critical flaw which prevents designwork) What are you considering here - Bigger buildings? Broader streets? I might agree with you here, but need to hear more specifics from you.
 

paulkenny

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personally that is one of the disappointments I experience with MMPs inability to publish AoO. It has been several years since a new board has entered the system and it appears it is quite a while before another "official" board does enter.
 

purdyrc

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Petros said:
Rick,
In order to keep this comment about a double geoboard into this threads' original context, which it should stay within, can we think about a city double-board in terms of Luppo's plan to produce new, more realistic looking city boards?
If this is the way we view your comment, then we can ask you what sorts of realistic city terrain requires not being interrupted by the various stock roads and woods hexes and half-hexes that border the geoboards lengthwise? (I agree that this border terrain is limiting - but it's not a critical flaw which prevents designwork) What are you considering here - Bigger buildings? Broader streets? I might agree with you here, but need to hear more specifics from you.
Larger Buildings/Factories, broader streets, City Parks/Plazas, and Rubble Fields are what I had in mind. I think that when you look at the ABTF and RB maps, you get the feel that you are in a city, but the geo-boards look a little tame by comparison. Don't get me wrong, I still like the geo-boards, but I get the feeling that the designers are trying to cram a city into 8" by 22", rather than let it flow more freely the way a real city does.

I think the two matching boards would allow for all kinds of terrain (not just cities) to be represented. I like HoB's idea for their High Ground pack. The two boards together represent terrain that simply would not fit on a single board. This idea can be expanded to include beach and matching inland terrain, desert terrain other than "flat and open", or even large hills with rocky escarpments (like Sicily or Italy). Again, I think the idea would be to create an action pack around the two matching boards. They could be made into a series of products that way.

- Rick
 

Robin Reeve

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Most urban geoboards depict very large streets (80 meters between buildings on each side of them!).
I'd like to see a real "old city", with narrow streets, buildings separated by "black bars" as rowhouses, etc.
Not just a village : a whole city, where one has to fight room to room, as in most european cities.
A devastated town would also be something interesting : why not create a large overlay, adapted to an existing geoboard.
There should also be a way to depict, for an example, rubbled 1st level, etc.
I would also like to see overlays transforming old geoboards adding new terrain : for an example, the "block" of buildings and other features in the "road loop" of board 3 could be covered by an overlay picturing the same buildings, but with orchards, narrow streets, etc.
Woods in the middle of a village always astonished me - but board 3 is really a very pleasing board...
 

CDT LUPPO

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hello to all : petros, robin & rick...!!!

first let me thank you all for the replies/ advices & good comments : i really do appriciate : ))

second, let me apologize for beiing late to respond : but major virus/system problems on my pc prevented me from this board during 2/3 days...

more on the urban maps a little later !
 

Robin Reeve

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pitman said:
Actually, the two ASLSK boards have entered the system.
I would not count them as good urban maps...:eek: More like training ground...:rolleyes:
 

Pitman

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It doesn't matter if you like them or not; the point is, there *have* been new official boards released.
 

sgtono

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pitman said:
It doesn't matter if you like them or not; the point is, there *have* been new official boards released.

It does matter whether we like them, as in whether they will be used. Mark, you have it somewhere that MMP as officially announced that z and y are official ASL maps?

Keith
(remember ASLSK is not ASL)
 

Chas Argent

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I can't find the exact quote, but I'm pretty sure Brian has said they are fair game to be used in future ASL scenarios.
 
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