New HPS Game - Modern Air Combat -

[Panther77th]

Ah yes quite right, your encountering my same issues. I cannot find a proper color setting for my current topo map thats agreeable with the current missle color. Perhaps some emails asking if they can change the missle "dot" icon to yellow? I can change the aircraft icons in photoshop so thats not too much of an issue. I find bright blue and red the best.

I was given a large military topo map by my father many years ago when he was in Vietnam. I managed to scan it in parts, and reassemble the map using Photoshop. Due to its coloration, grid lines, its nearly impossible to make out missles. I would be happy to volunteer this map to HPS if they can find a way of changing the missle "dot" colors.

I suppose I was a bit harsh regarding this simulation. Once modded to my tastes, its actualy much better. Again I have changed the aircraft art, to actualy photographs, changed the coloring of the aircraft icons and styles. They have a more "3d" effect to them now.

I guess my disappointment in Point of Attack 2 transfered unfairly to this game.

Regards,

Jim

 

[Hub]

Panther77th:

I have asked the developers if they could change the colour- the request is "going through channels." I kind of get the feeling I'd better not hold my hand over my *** waiting though. Don't feel too bad about your initial judgement- I'm also starting to get pissed off with the flaws that these games are coming out with: WOV, PoA2, and Decisive Action. Because of the difference in the US and Canadian dollar, customs, shipping, delivery fees, etc., these games end up costimg me around $80 apiece- not cheap for me- and I expect better...

Just heard back from HPS- no, they won't change the colour, because it isn't an official mod- oh well.

 

[Hub]

Actually, part of what is happening to this niche, IMO, is that developers are trying to jump on the bandwagon and take advantage of the currently growing fascination the US military has with using simulations for training: TacOps, PoA2, DA, Steel Beasts, Harpoon, ATF, etc. I think developers are scrambling to get stuff into this market, and quality control is starting to suffer from it.

It's also likely that's why some of the developers are absent from the boards of late- they're putting their attention where the money is hopefully going to turn out to be more lucrative, in government contracts. I have to give Major Holdridge credit, he always has asserted that his military customers take priority over the "hobbyists," so far as charting whatever course TacOps will take...

 

[meade95]

Hub & Panther77 -

Thanks to both of you for the good work - I am surprised HPS wouldn't be willing to adjust the color of missles firing - especially if it helped with the mapping situation (of which they have had many complaints).

That seems odd - Here's hoping the adjust the map on their own - I know Rich on the other Unofficial Board asked for a re-done (re-made map) to be emailed to him and he would put it up in the download section at the HPS website -

Have either of you emailed in a re-done map?

 

[Custer6]

Hub & Panther77 -

Thanks to both of you for the good work - I am surprised HPS wouldn't be willing to adjust the color of missles firing - especially if it helped with the mapping situation (of which they have had many complaints).

That seems odd - Here's hoping the adjust the map on their own - I know Rich on the other Unofficial Board asked for a re-done (re-made map) to be emailed to him and he would put it up in the download section at the HPS website -

Have either of you emailed in a re-done map?

Hi,
Rich has received the map that I redid by following Hub's post. It was Hub that suggested the changes for that map. It works for me now. Rich said he would post it soon.

 

[Hub]

OJ-663 Map Display (revised)

Since HPS won't change the colour of the missile icon (it really is minute and hard to see, regardless of what the map it's on looks like), I've changed the OJ-663 Map display background from black to neutral grey, and tweaked the misc ground icons a little bit. I don't like it as much, but at least you can see the missiles flying now. If anyone is interested in trying it out, I can send it to you. You won't miss the terrain, as there doesn't appear to be terrain masking as such, just revised search and detection parameters for lower and NOE altitude levels. So, no flying behind "Thud Ridge" to mask your approach...my email is sabot_up@telus.net.

 

[Hub]

Prohibited/restricted zones

I'm in the process of adding the prohibited/restricted zones around Hanoi, Haiphong, and the Chinese border on my OJ-663 map. I hope to have it done in a few days.

 

[Hub]

Updated Map Complete

I've completed my updated map. It now contains the buffer zone along the Chinese border, the restricted/prohibited zones around Hanoi/Haiphong, and the Route Pack boundaries. If you would like to try this map out, email me at sabot_up@telus.net and I will send it along to you.

 

[Old&Slow]

Reviews ?

Has someone done a review of this Game yet ?

How is the friendly and enemy AI ??

How about replayability ???

It`s an interesting subject but if it`s like the recent HPS Naval Games , which are so simple, with so much important stuff abstracted it`s worthless as a sim IMO I`ll pass.

 

[Hub]

My review:

Save your money for something else, until you can see that HPS starts putting a little more effort into this series...

 

[HercMighty]

My review:

Save your money for something else, until you can see that HPS starts putting a little more effort into this series...

This is starting to be a standard line. It is really to bad.

 

[meade95]

I just recieved WOV in the mail 2 days ago - have been play testing with it -

I do agree with HUB - a more up to date version would be nice - or even if they included more up to date aircraft and Radar's, etc -

I really think they should give a few varying types of Radar's -

So far, in many ways the game seems simplistic - but I think maybe there is much more "under the hood" so to speak - it will just take some time / effort into understanding how the game works throughout -

I really hope when the update the game they allow for "customers" to adjust missile stats - Right now some missiles are way to accurate (for vietnam era) - but from the sounds of it they are going to overeact back the other way and make them almost useless - I hope they allow customers to play-test and adjust on our own -

 

[meade95]

There is a full scenario editor and OBB editor (with somewhat of a manual for each) -

This could lead to some very interesting player made scenario's - however, being able to mod the aircraft, radar's and missiles is also needed....

 

[Hub]

I think the Vietnam airwar was the wrong place to start a modern airpower series, especially using Tiller's "one size fits all," gaming system. There were too many special cases and situations involved, none of which are properly represented, if modeled at all. What is there is a reasonable start, but it feels very incomplete when you try to play through it.

The Sparrow is an ubermissile right now- its BASE pK, for the early models at least, should be around 20%, 25% at best. There were many teething problems and deployment issues with the early variants. Not to mention that the "positive visual ID before shooting" ROE threw away any advantages stand off weapons like the Sparrow would have given the US...

Meade95, it doesn't seem to be in line with Tiller's vision to make games that are easily moddable or replete with large, user friendly databases (although, in fairness, I think the aircraft database supplied specifically for the Vietnam War is very good). I think the fear is that if you make a game too easy to manipulate, it will hurt sales of follow on titles, as people will simply "roll their own" with what they already have, instead of buying more (I don't really see any evidence of this with more user friendly games, myself- buying more games, I mean. We all suffer from "hunter-gatherer syndrome.")

 

[Old&Slow]

Review

Thanks guys, but what do you _do_ in the Game Scenarios ?

Air to Air combat was the least of what went on there IMHO.

Create strike packages, routes in and out, actually fire missles and guns, program the ECM escorts ???

Is there any real re-playability here ... the Naval Games were mind numingley simple and had a re-plability of about 2 hours.

Thanks

PS: Obviously I want to like this but after the POA2 screw job we got and the Naval Games I`m HPS shy..... :crosseye:

 

[Hub]

Create strike packages, routes in and out, actually fire missles and guns, program the ECM escorts ???

Yes, you can do all that. Most elements have ordnance loadouts you can choose from when creating your own scenario ( I deem the number available per specific aircraft to be sufficient- many don't share that opinion though. The F-105D has nine, the F-105F fourteen, for example).

The AI has a certain amount of randomness built into it. There is a certain amount of replay value- my main sticking points are the historical realism issues that pertain specifically to that war and that era, which are simply not being addressed.

 

[Panther77th]

My review:

Save your money for something else, until you can see that HPS starts putting a little more effort into this series...

I have to agree, I have really been trying to give this a chance, modding out any short comings on my own. Then I realized something. I shouldnt have to, I paid for it HPS could really learn a few lessons from Matrix, Highway to the Reich is a very rich gaming experience. $ to $, you get much much more.

panther

 

[meade95]

What I do think would help WOV is some type of campaign mode - or dynamic campaign as to where you were making progress in a larger war - (perhaps) - This would make you utilize your different aircraft carriers and air bases, etc -

I do agree with HUB that maybe a different time frame would have been a better place to start - maybe with more modern aircraft and perhaps 4 or 5 map locations (maps made with jpeg type images would be much more helpful also - much smaller then how they currently come).

HUB is this what your map does? reduces the size? Let me know -

I also think it takes some time to understand what is needed when implementing your strike package. It is very simple to place your aircraft and go - I am trying to learn a little more about the dynamics of the game (how the engine models) and thus understand the need for differing waves of aircraft within a full strike package -

 

[Hub]

My map is in 4 bit (16 colours), so it is half the file size of the map that comes with the game. It has the following:

Rough similarity to the OJ-663 display used by the Navy (green outline coastline and borders on dark grey background (no visible terrain features, which had no effect on the game anyway)

Restricted zones represented around Hanoi and Haiphong

Prohibited zones represented around Hanoi and Haiphong

30 nm buffer zone along the Chinese border represented

Route Pack boundaries (1-6B) shown

Plus, included are new NTDS symbols to replace the radar site, SAM, and ship icons in the game (all three zooms)