New guy needs Tank tactics help.

FelderMaus

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Hello all,

Well, I'm playing another game with Armor in it and they are popping like popcorn. The current scenario is Under the Noel Trees (ASL23) and my Germans have lost 4 tanks in 3 turns. I just can't seem to get the hang of keeping my forces moving and being able to effectively hit anything. I've tried shooting on the move, move-stop-shoot-start, and keeping one tank "covering" while another one moves. The only thing I can think to try is platoon movement to keep my forces together and get off a big volley of shots when possible.

The current situation is that I have 3 Pz IVH left to try and take out the 2 TD but still be able to get them off the board.

Is there any suggestions, tank tactics, and wisdom that can be shared to help a poor man out?

Thanks a bunch!
 

Chas Argent

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Under The Noel Trees is tough, because those Hellcats with a ROF of 2 kick ASS and can really decimate the German tanks.

I try to do "covering fire" with a tank that is outside the TCA of the tank I'm trying to kill; that is, make your opponent pay as many mods as possible if he wants to shoot back at you. If possible try to do 2 covering tanks for every one you wish to kill; get them hull down or at least with some kind of TEM, even if it's only a hedge or height advantage; and if the situation warrants it go for Intensive Fire after you've gained some acquistion. It may well be worth it to go CE as well, depending on how close you are to the Yank infantry. All fairly basic ideas but good to keep in mind.
 

FelderMaus

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Chas Argent said:
Under The Noel Trees is tough, because those Hellcats with a ROF of 2 kick ASS and can really decimate the German tanks.

I try to do "covering fire" with a tank that is outside the TCA of the tank I'm trying to kill; that is, make your opponent pay as many mods as possible if he wants to shoot back at you. If possible try to do 2 covering tanks for every one you wish to kill; get them hull down or at least with some kind of TEM, even if it's only a hedge or height advantage; and if the situation warrants it go for Intensive Fire after you've gained some acquistion. It may well be worth it to go CE as well, depending on how close you are to the Yank infantry. All fairly basic ideas but good to keep in mind.
This brings up a followup question:

Are there any guidelines when to go CE vs BU? For example, I had all my armor CE but one was stunned by a warm Sniper. Do you usually keep your tanks BU and suck up the +1 to-hit or chance the Collateral/Infantry fire to remove that +1?

Thanks for the quick response!

Maus.
 

Jazz

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FelderMaus said:
Chas Argent said:
Under The Noel Trees is tough, because those Hellcats with a ROF of 2 kick ASS and can really decimate the German tanks.

I try to do "covering fire" with a tank that is outside the TCA of the tank I'm trying to kill; that is, make your opponent pay as many mods as possible if he wants to shoot back at you. If possible try to do 2 covering tanks for every one you wish to kill; get them hull down or at least with some kind of TEM, even if it's only a hedge or height advantage; and if the situation warrants it go for Intensive Fire after you've gained some acquistion. It may well be worth it to go CE as well, depending on how close you are to the Yank infantry. All fairly basic ideas but good to keep in mind.
This brings up a followup question:

Are there any guidelines when to go CE vs BU? For example, I had all my armor CE but one was stunned by a warm Sniper. Do you usually keep your tanks BU and suck up the +1 to-hit or chance the Collateral/Infantry fire to remove that +1?

Thanks for the quick response!

Maus.
CE or BU is a situational call....SAN and vehicle/gun matchups and range are the main variables. It tend to stay BU but will go CE for a long range duel...depending on the SAN of course.

As far as keeping your tanks alive... SMOKE, SMOKE, and more SMOKE. Use the sD/sN/sM. Move up, smoke your hex, phase, and the smoke is there for Dfire and his prep get your Acq in AdvFire . You get the first shot without smoke. Use SMOKE from your other tanks to cover the approach. Again, you will get the first shot without smoke. You can often SMOKE an appropriate hex with a tank out of LOS of the target hex.
 

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Feldermaus,

sorry i dont have the time to give long reply, but keep those tanks CE unless SAN is 5 or greater.
 

Robin Reeve

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In "Under the noel trees" (ASL 23), I was caught as you were...
Here is an idea of tactics I would try if I were to play again.
In that scenario, I believe that, besides Tank manoeuver, the German ought to rely... on his infantry.
The two M18 are OT tanks.
They should be hosed with IFT fire and stunned (or Recalled, if you manage to roll low enough).
Your Infantry should armor advance and create large multiple-hex FG to do this, and your tanks should shoot all their MGs against these #@$? TDs.
When both of the latter are dead, even if you lost a little time doing it, you are OK for a rush across the board...
I presume there are better ideas than mine, but I'd give mine a try... :roll:
 

FelderMaus

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Everyone,

Thanks for all the great feedback. Since I'm about half way through the game, I'll try out some of the suggestions and post a followup after next weeks Tuesday game.

Maus.
 

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TankDawg said:
Feldermaus,

sorry i dont have the time to give long reply, but keep those tanks CE unless SAN is 5 or greater.
If you do that, make sure you have a number of expendable HS around to soak up the snipers.

I guess I've just had too many AFV recalled due to sniper shots. CE AFV and SANs is kinda like trailer courts and tornados....
 

SamB

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sorry i dont have the time to give long reply, but keep those tanks CE unless SAN is 5 or greater.
I disagree. There are many other factors besides the SAN to consider. Many Russian tanks (and all Open Top) can't fire if CE. And if your opponent has significant IFE weapons or infantry - staying CE in range of these weapons just allows the infantry to hurt / recall your tanks.

But, I'm no expert with tank tactics. Ask anyone who's played me - except for Jeff - I whipped his butt.

:roll: Sam
 

FelderMaus

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Luckily the sniper that hit my Pz IVH only gave him a stun, not a recall result. Still, trying to look at the bright side, that tank didn't get blown up due to his inability to move during that phase!

Are there any thoughts on platoon movement vs moving tanks singlely? I had a thought to move the group of 5 Pz IVH's as a platoon to 1) soak up fire due to so many targets and 2) be able to return a torrent of return shots (albet at a low chance to hit due to the movement).

Maus.
(Learning a lot and trying to keep it coming.)
 

SamB

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Are there any thoughts on platoon movement vs moving tanks singlely?
In general, its not worth it... Platoon movement can be exploited to prevent your opponent from firing at you (or limiting the number of shots he can get off). This is called (by some) "Platoon Movement Sleeze".

The way it works is this... lets say you have a tank in LOS of an enemy who has him acquired. You have at least one other tank adjacent to your targeted tank and both of these can be out of LOS of the enemy if they can turn around and move back one hex. You declare platoon movement and start the platoon. Because of the special platoon movement rules, your opponent can't fire until one of the platoon vehicles enters a new hex. So you turn both vehicles and move one hex - out of LOS of your enemy. No shot is allowed.

BUT unless you are in this very special type of condition, the dis advantages of platoon movement outweigh any advantage (IMO. So manuver your tanks one at a time. But it is a good idea to keep them close to each other so they can return "massed" fire if they need to.

BTW, the platoon movement rules are rumored to be under revision, so the whole issue of platoon movement sleeze may go away soon.

Sam
 

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BTW, the platoon movement rules are rumored to be under revision, so the whole issue of platoon movement sleeze may go away soon.

Sam[/quote]

Does this mean we will no longer have to put up with PMS? :D If they can fix that, I have a whole list of s@*t I would like them to fix.
 

FelderMaus

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I think I'll have to reread the platoon movement rules to see what the disadvantages are. I never thought of the PMS (as it's being referred).

Maus.
(Still learning alot...)
 

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SamB said:
[BUT unless you are in this very special type of condition, the dis advantages of platoon movement outweigh any advantage (IMO.
Actually, the very least platoon movement will get you in most situations (i.e. when your vehicle is not in Motion at the start of the MPh) is the ability to add the +2 DRM for being a moving vehile. Additionally, you might be able to enter the enemy's hex for another +2 DRM.

Also, if you are in enemy infantry's location, you would be immune to CC Reaction Fire from the start MP, which can be very important as well, although is generally a rare occurance.
 

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The main disadvantage of Platoon movement is that is slows you down.

It also (obviously) limits you tactically because all of the vehicles in the platoon MUST stay together while using platoon movement.

Sam
 

Brian W

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SamB said:
It also (obviously) limits you tactically because all of the vehicles in the platoon MUST stay together while using platoon movement.
Must unless you pass a TC.

Also, platoon moving vehicles are less likely to bog/fail Mechanical Reliability. However, a platoon may never use ESB.
 

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SamB said:
You declare platoon movement and start the platoon. Because of the special platoon movement rules, your opponent can't fire until one of the platoon vehicles enters a new hex. So you turn both vehicles and move one hex - out of LOS of your enemy. No shot is allowed.
Does this also mean that a Stopped Platoon, spending Delay MP (to increase the MP in LOS of a target to avoid Case C2-C3) cannot be fired upon, as neither vehicle is entering a new hex in this Impulse?

Thanks
Yarlis
 

SamB

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Does this also mean that a Stopped Platoon, spending Delay MP (to increase the MP in LOS of a target to avoid Case C2-C3) cannot be fired upon, as neither vehicle is entering a new hex in this Impulse?
Yes, I believe this is correct.
 

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FelderMaus,

I feel your pain. I just played my second FTF game this past weekend - the first I'd played with Armor. We played Eye of the Tiger, which turned out to be a very fun combined arms scenario.

As I was a new guy, my opponent was giving me lots of help with the armor rules and standard tactics (thanks!), etc., but I still felt like a fish out of water. There is definitely a delicate balance between fire and maneuver and self-preservation, and I never felt comfortable that I was making good choices. I don't think I played the armor blatantly horrible, but it wasn't effective either. I ended up losing my entire armored force over the course of the game (3 T34s and 1 Su85) and in exchange only took down 1 PzIVH and a Puma. I didn't exactly manage my infantry that well either, and was soundly defeated overall.

The good news is that I learned a lot and had a very good time. I may get thrashed again the next time I play, but I'll be a little bit smarter and I'm sure I'll have a good time then too.

Great game!

BrianS
 
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