NEW Edition DID WE DO THIS RIGHT ATR vs. a ATG

[Markdv5208]

OK Played for the first time one of the Konigsbergs Scenarios. Officers Quarters I think was the name of it GREAT scenario...and in 30 years of play my opponent, one Jeff De Young said he had never seen the following done before

I fired an ATR vs. one of his PaK 75mm ATGs. He is like so what. So what? Well...C8.3 gave me HE equivalency and I needed a 3 to TK the gun. Jeff is like what? ONLY A CH will get my gun. I said at first a 7, based on the blue chart calling of what it does to an unarmored target ie a ATR then...a 3? Well I rolled a 3, Jeff did NOT like that and rather than argue, a 50 50 die roll which I lost (keeps flow of play going)

BUT I THINK I was right...famous last words I think right?

What says the hive mind?

I will also post this on facebook

 

[klasmalmstrom]

IIRC, it needs to be a 20mm ATR to attack a Gun via a TH DR. A "regular" ATR can only attack a Gun/crew directly on the IFT.

 

[daveramsey]

Just confirming Klas's correct answer: Footnote 1 of C8.31: [...] ATR can use AP HE Equivalency only if it is 20mm.

 

[Markdv5208]

SO... a CH vs. the ATG and it's gone

BUT barring a CH does it need a 3 as the one-1 table suggests? OR are you only rolling for a CH?

 

[jrv]

SO... a CH vs. the ATG and it's gone

BUT barring a CH does it need a 3 as the one-1 table suggests? OR are you only rolling for a CH?

So not a CH with a regular ATR. A regular (i.e. not 20mm+) ATR cannot fire TH vs infantry, including vs infantry possessing things like ATGs. It may only fire on the IFT using its one FP (plus whatever else FP firegroups with it). A snakeeyes is on the IFT, not a critical hit because there is no TH.

JR

 

[Eagle4ty]

SO... a CH vs. the ATG and it's gone

BUT barring a CH does it need a 3 as the one-1 table suggests? OR are you only rolling for a CH?

Assuming it has an IFE equivalent (e.g. 20mm only - as I do not believe there are any other ATR's with IFE equiv.), all that is required is to get a CH to destroy the gun & crew (C11.52) and no additional DR on the IFT is required.

As noted previously, the confusing part of the ATR effects here is that it has been ruled that the usual small arms IFT firepower of usual ATR (non-20mm) does not equate to an IFE (Infantry Firepower Equivalent). Our brains tell us that the 1 FP small arms attack on the IFT is the equivalent infantry firepower of that ATR but it not used as a TH effects even though it is assumed you must get a hit (small arms wise - no TH DR) to get an IFT effects. Hope that helps to clear thing up!

 

[jrv]

As noted previously, the confusing part of the ATR effects here is that it has been ruled that the usual small arms IFT firepower of usual ATR (non-20mm) does not equate to an IFE (Infantry Firepower Equivalent).

If the one FP from an ATR were IFE, it couldn't (in general) firegroup with other units.

JR

 

[von Marwitz]

IIRC, it needs to be a 20mm ATR to attack a Gun via a TH DR. A "regular" ATR can only attack a Gun/crew directly on the IFT.

This.

There is an excellent article on Guns in BFP's 'Poland in Flames' booklet (pp. 24-43), which also addresses this question on page 28.

von Marwitz