NBS titles put on hold
- Thread starter Cherper
- Start date
'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
Which sux, because the new system (NBS 3.0) really is great. BYouse has never made a secret of the fact that he doesn't like Napoleonics himself, but certainly the sales data in hand made this easier to justify, I suppose.
I know the Salamanca and Bailen games are "in the can", and of the two Salamanca, due to name recognition, would seem to be the better choice of placing on preorder. After all, that's what the preorder system is allegedly for (though does nothing, admittedly, about stock sitting idly on the warehouse shelves).
I think if the system is to have any hopes of resuccitation, it's going to have to push out a Waterloo/Quatre Bras/Ligny set and leave aside the esoteric battles until/if any momentum is created.
Borodino, Leipzig, Jena...the 'name' battles, no matter how much disdain or disregard the principles may have for these battles, must be the centerpieces of any life support for this system, which is too damn3d good to be allowed to wither on the vine...
I know the Salamanca and Bailen games are "in the can", and of the two Salamanca, due to name recognition, would seem to be the better choice of placing on preorder. After all, that's what the preorder system is allegedly for (though does nothing, admittedly, about stock sitting idly on the warehouse shelves).
I think if the system is to have any hopes of resuccitation, it's going to have to push out a Waterloo/Quatre Bras/Ligny set and leave aside the esoteric battles until/if any momentum is created.
Borodino, Leipzig, Jena...the 'name' battles, no matter how much disdain or disregard the principles may have for these battles, must be the centerpieces of any life support for this system, which is too damn3d good to be allowed to wither on the vine...
I agree that the system is good. You are correct that the only hope the system has is if they go after battles with name recognition. Hardcore Napoleonic buffs know of Bailen and Lodi and a myriad of other small battles, but the average gamer know of Waterloo and Borodino.
I was looking forward to Salamanca and Bailen, but one of the guys I play with, asked what war are those from? This guy plays lots of games, but isn't into the history side.
I was looking forward to Salamanca and Bailen, but one of the guys I play with, asked what war are those from? This guy plays lots of games, but isn't into the history side.
Hmm, too bad. :angry: The Pre-order system is fine to make sure you get at least break even but not enough to make for a success.
I do like to the rules a lot, although some updates seem weird sometimes, but indeed the less known battles are not helping. It started well in that regard with Austerlitz...
The designers elaborated on possible campaigns in Operations but that's on the backburner now.
Well there are a lot of COA LB games which I play with NBS rules, not too bad. And I have to admit I prefer the map/counterart of the LB series.
I do like to the rules a lot, although some updates seem weird sometimes, but indeed the less known battles are not helping. It started well in that regard with Austerlitz...
The designers elaborated on possible campaigns in Operations but that's on the backburner now.
Well there are a lot of COA LB games which I play with NBS rules, not too bad. And I have to admit I prefer the map/counterart of the LB series.
'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
The model is flawed (battles chosen, not necesarily the preorder system)
I think a little brouhaha will erupt over the claim the NBS "Gnomes" "..refused to help..." with a Waterloo NBS game. Methinks a little :lier: was involved...
Yeah, La Batt is the standard, graphically, though I think the NBS rules are far superior, play-wise.
I was not implying that at all. I have the impression a lot of "gnomes" were pushing for Waterloo/Borodino but that some reasons mentioned in Operations it did not get priority
'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
That was a quote from Dean Essig on CSW, here, and seconded by Series Honcho, Anders Fager on the NBS Gnomes list:I was not implying that at all. I have the impression a lot of "gnomes" were pushing for Waterloo/Borodino but that some reasons mentioned in Operations it did not get priority
so, if I gave the impression you implied this, I'm sorry.
Another (semi-) bombshell: Anders seems inclined to walk away from the whole thing in disgust/disappointment/anger/whatever...which is a shame.
Pfew, looks like a big misunderstanding...wth :OHNO:
and what a difference with the OCS group. John is a delight and the playtesters were all great.
Keith Todd
Member
I, too, will miss the NBS system. Losing CWB was hard enough especially when I look at the Cold Harbor add-on playtest game I have.
On the pre-order system, I think the system itself can be flawed at times. I have never done it since then but I pre-ordered 4 copies of Talavera. If even a small percentage of the pre-orders are multiples to one person, the P# begins to not reflect the demand for the game. Probably best not to be so gung ho with hitting the numbers and wait for the number to hit with more individual orders. Hoping more will get involved with the system.
Ah, but I am ramble...
Keith
CWB is out too ?! :crosseye:
Where did I miss that one...again :dead:
'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
Mainly due to a lack of remaining battles worth gaming; Dean is revamping the regimental series through his Line of Battle rules, which, if proving popular, could lend itself to more and unexplored territory.
I know that a lot of the NBS Gnomes dislike Adam Starkweather, and I will admit that his arrogance can get annoying, but his game La Belle Alliance might save the series rules. I only hope that the people that can act to save the system are not going to let their egos get in the way.
But that seems to be too late now... RIP
'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
LBA is at a different scale-battalion; 100m hexes-than NBS-brigade/regiment; 200m hexes-and uses a derivation of the older NBS rules. Apart from OOB and map research, there isn't much to port to an NBS version other than a starting point.
The new rules are the vehicle that needs to be preserved; slapping "NBS" on a Waterloo game that doesn't bear a resemblance to the actual NBS will rub people the wrong way, particularly those who labored for a decade to get NBS 3.0 released.
I agree LBA could help reduce the time spent in research to get a NBS Waterloo game out, but it has to be a NBS Waterloo.
I am on the Gnomes list, and I will tell you that the attitude being expressed right now is the end of NBS. Anders and Elias don't WANT to do Waterloo. It is apparently too trite. Unfortunately, it might mean that the system dies.
'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
Me, too; I think the lack of a serious interest in even doing Waterloo led to the guys in charge basically thumbing their noses at their bosses with this result coming this evening:
F***.
Anders and Elias shot themselves in the foot with this. MMP was willing to keep supporting NBS, but they had to do the Waterloo game that MMP wanted to publish. In the end the NBS fans lose.
MMP is not going to let them steal the system, and so it dies, because the egos involved wouldn't bend. If they were willing to make the one map Waterloo, they probably could have published either Salamanca or Bailen, but while those two may showcase the system, they won't see any better than Talavera. It would have ended up delaying the inevitable, but I don't know that you can focus on small battles that don't have any name recognition and survive other than as a DTP.
MMP is not going to let them steal the system, and so it dies, because the egos involved wouldn't bend. If they were willing to make the one map Waterloo, they probably could have published either Salamanca or Bailen, but while those two may showcase the system, they won't see any better than Talavera. It would have ended up delaying the inevitable, but I don't know that you can focus on small battles that don't have any name recognition and survive other than as a DTP.
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'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
Agreed; I was also a little turned off at how the lack of progress on Waterloo was turned back on the gnomes, rather than their own intransigence. I personally never felt the whole process ever got past the discussion phase; awaiting nebulous map and OB research, I waited for the call for playtesters, which never came.
I'm leery of Adam's game for the fact that it isn't going to be the new version of NBS. In fact, looking over some of the early posts in his LBA folder on CSW, he thought NBS was "too complex" or words to that effect. Do I really want a dumbed-down NBS?
Not by a longshot.
I also am not impressed with the counter work I saw (which may be early prototypes, in fairness). There's not a quick visual recognition between the battalion counter and the skirmisher counter and both have an icon AND NATO symbols. Now, the NBS counters are rather starkly plain, but a happy medium could certainly be found betwixt the two.
All in all, this really svcks.
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'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
...sigh... well, this is the LBA folder on CSW; I find it hard to swallow the 'tone' of the folder, but it appears NBS-in whatever b@st@rdised form-will continue through this series. Anders and Elias are hinting they may design something-seperately or together-down the road.
Looking at the proposed components for LBA, all I can say is :kotz:
Looking at the proposed components for LBA, all I can say is :kotz:
I agree. I am not fond of Starkweather's artwork in general.