Naval book recommendations

Bullethead

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Iam currently reading "The Rules of the Game" by Andrew Gordon ... I came on it as it is recommended by the Dreadnought Project Site. They say it is the best book on Jutland. And I must say, it is a good book.
This is by far the best book on military history, whether land, sea, or air combat, that I have ever read. It's extremely well-thought out and extensively researched, which you'd certainly hope in a book of this size, and which you'd expect in any good military history. What sets this book apart, however, is the absolute wealth of material and how it's presented.

It's obvious the author isn't a career historian--he writes far too well :). I bet he's got some novels to his credit, and if he doesn't, he should. Gordon manages to make grogs think they're reading about Jutland for the 1st time. While the book's avowed purpose is exploration of the esoteric subject of the thought processes of Brit admirals at Jutland, and the arcana of fleet signalling, the overall narrative carries you pleasantly along like an action novel, thanks to the wealth of trivia and sarcastic lower deck comments thrown in to illustrate the consequences of the decisions of admirals and the environment they lived in. And there's even a huge cliff-hanger and long flashback interposed just at the battle's crisis point. I've never read a history book like this, and doubt I'll see another.
 

WallysWorld

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"Great Sea Battles" by Oliver Warner has a great and very descriptive chapter about Jutland. My mother bought me this book when I was a wee lad and it marked the first time I ever heard about Jutland.
 

Bullethead

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I've got a book on order now that I have high hopes for (at $80, it BETTER be good :angry: ). It's called Wielding the Dagger and is about the German naval forces (sea, air, and land) that operated from Belgian bases during WW1. IOW, the primary opposition of the Dover Patrol on the Brit side of the ditch.

I'll post a review once I've read it.
 

Bullethead

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Book Review: Wielding the Dagger

Wielding the Dagger: The MarineKorps Flandern and the German War Effort, 1914-1918
by Mark D. Karau, Praeger Publishers, 2003
ISBN 0-313-32475-1

This book is the only one I know of that treats the German naval efforts in Belgium during WW1 as its main subject. So for that reason, it's worth having :).

The book itself is well-written but badly published. As in, it's sometimes difficult to read because of how the text is justified to be even on both margins. Instead of spreading letters out evenly, or adding more space between words, the extra space needed to fill out lines of text is in the form of regularly sized spaces between letters within words. Thus, many words on many lines are broken up, so that individual letters stand alone with spaces on both sides. AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!

However, if you can get past that, the book's a good read with much valuable info :).

MKF was a very interesting organization, a hybrid of naval and military forces. The bulk of the personnel were land-based in what were effectively naval infantry divisions. The original one of these captured the area, then was pulled out of the line to build and fortify the naval bases in Belgium. This division was replaced in the line, at the army's insistance, by a new, 2nd infantry division, which was later supplimented by a 3rd one in mid-1917. All this was just to support the naval and air operations from the bases of Ostend, Zeebrugge, and Brugges.

The history of MKF is a long line of woulda-coulda-shoulda indecision, like so much else in German WW1 policy. The Germans knew that bases in Belgium would be quite useful against Britain, and created MKF to exploit them, but then failed to take full advantage of them. MKF's commander (an admiral) was on a par with the other major German naval and army commanders, with direct access to the Kaiser and all. However, he had to argue with these other commanders for force allocation, and usually didn't get what he wanted. Thus, despite having a force specifically created to use subs and DDs against Brit shipping in the Channel area, and having turned the Belgian coast into about the most heavily fortified area in the world by March 1915, there weren't many subs or DDs assigned there until the 2nd 1/2 of the war. At this point, with the start of the unrestricted sub campaign, the Belgian bases assumed a huge importance to the Germans and the forces based there increased greatly. Of course, so did Brit efforts to neutralize these bases.

The book goes through all this history, mainly focusing on the arguments between the MKF commander and his peers, but also including details of the planning for German intervention in netural Holland in the event of a Brit invasion there. The Germans believed this would happen, especially during 1917, so put a lot of thought into what they would do. On the actual Flanders front, the book is very specific as regards DDs and TBs assigned there even temporarily, pretty good on the shore batteries (in terms of equipment, but not location), but less so with subs and even less with details on the air units. Some of the major DD actions are covered in fairly good detail for a book focusing on higher issues, and the damage done by subs over time is listed periodically.

All in all, this is a good book on its own merits and, by being somewhat unique, its value is enhanced. It makes a good addition to the various books on the Dover Patrol and Harwich Force, which were the primary opponents of MKF.
 

Hinchinbrooke

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Another book for recommendation: "Jutland, 1916 Death in the Grey Wastes" by Peter Hart and Nigel Steel. Just finished it. A very good read, essentially in the words of those who fought over those couple of days. Some parts are quite affecting.......... the sheer terror of being under bombardment stuck in a steel coffin.............. Not an analytical book.................... just human stories.
 

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I've got a book on order now that I have high hopes for (at $80, it BETTER be good :angry: ). It's called Wielding the Dagger and is about the German naval forces (sea, air, and land) that operated from Belgian bases during WW1. IOW, the primary opposition of the Dover Patrol on the Brit side of the ditch.

I'll post a review once I've read it.
I hope that they have this book at our Library , this is one I really would like to read. I am going to see if it is here. Also sense I am not able to buy books now I will try to put what ones down that I find at our library. It would be great to be able to find them and to see first if one liked them or not.
 

Bullethead

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I hope that they have this book at our Library , this is one I really would like to read. I am going to see if it is here. Also sense I am not able to buy books now I will try to put what ones down that I find at our library. It would be great to be able to find them and to see first if one liked them or not.
The book was pretty good. I posted a review that's still on the front page of this forum somewhere.

And don't forget libraries can get books from other libraries.
 

Daedalus

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The book was pretty good. I posted a review that's still on the front page of this forum somewhere.

And don't forget libraries can get books from other libraries.
Yea I am just learning this, as I have not used libraries much in the past.
At least public ones.
 

Hinchinbrooke

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For Jutland, this book is OT, but I was rummaging around in the 'library' and came across a book I bought years ago dealing with ships of the pre-dreadnought world, with great full page photos. Out of print for years I imagine, but lovely to look at (the shots are taken from the archive of Beken of Cowes).

Anyway: 'World Warships in Review 1860-1906', John Leather, Macdonald and Jane's, 1976.
 

Daedalus

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For Jutland, this book is OT, but I was rummaging around in the 'library' and came across a book I bought years ago dealing with ships of the pre-dreadnought world, with great full page photos. Out of print for years I imagine, but lovely to look at (the shots are taken from the archive of Beken of Cowes).

Anyway: 'World Warships in Review 1860-1906', John Leather, Macdonald and Jane's, 1976.
Thanks for the heads up on this Hinchinbrooke , I will see if I can find it here.
 

mattpenfold

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I would also recommend Conway's All The World's Fighting Ships 1906-1921 as a source of information on the ships and navies in use at the time. There are four volumes in the series, and this is the second, covering the period from the launch of HMS Dreadnaught to the launch of the first purpose designed and built carrier. The whole series covers from the first Ironclad, HMS Warrior to 1995.
 

Daedalus

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I would also recommend Conway's All The World's Fighting Ships 1906-1921 as a source of information on the ships and navies in use at the time. There are four volumes in the series, and this is the second, covering the period from the launch of HMS Dreadnaught to the launch of the first purpose designed and built carrier. The whole series covers from the first Ironclad, HMS Warrior to 1995.
I will have to go and look at the local used book store and try to find them,Most of the good books like this are way out of my budget at the new book stores.
I hope to find them as this looks like a very good set. So far I have found quite a few at the used book store, I guess that people do not keep there book like I do, I like my wall covered with book shelves . You can't have to many!
 

mattpenfold

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Daedelus,

All of my volumes of Conway's came second-hand either via Amazon or Ebay. I finally found the 1860-1905 today and bought it.

One word of warning. The post 1946 book comes it two versions. The original was a two book set upto 1985. It was later replaced with a single volume going upto 1995. The latter is the better option.
 

Daedalus

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Daedelus,

All of my volumes of Conway's came second-hand either via Amazon or Ebay. I finally found the 1860-1905 today and bought it.

One word of warning. The post 1946 book comes it two versions. The original was a two book set upto 1985. It was later replaced with a single volume going upto 1995. The latter is the better option.
Thank you, and you say the Newer book is the one to get. I will see what I can find. It will make it easer knowing that there is two series of these books.
 

Bullethead

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I would also recommend Conway's All The World's Fighting Ships 1906-1921 as a source of information on the ships and navies in use at the time.
This is a good book, but my opinion of it has fallen greatly over the course of my work for SES with the Jutland game. When you really start looking at its data hard, with a real need for specifics, you notice that the book is chock full of typos (ex. Helgoland's endurance), unhelpful generalities (ex. "The 8.8cm guns were gradually removed..."), omissions (ex. very few ships in the book as a whole have endurance figures given), and outright factual errors (ex. 4" BL Mk VIII wasn't 50-cal, nor was it in some of the ships the book says it was), mis-captioned photos, and incorrect line drawings. So, after many problems along these lines, the best I can say of this volume of Conway's is that it's way better and more accurate than the WW1 Jane's. But most definitely is not The Bible for ship stats.

Problem is, there's no single Bilble of which I'm aware. Conway's comes the closest, but take it with a grain of salt.
 

Bullethead

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Another book for recommendation: "Jutland, 1916 Death in the Grey Wastes" by Peter Hart and Nigel Steel. Just finished it.
I just got it, on your recommendation, and am to the point where Invincible has just blown up.

This is an EXCELLENT book. Not only for getting all the 1st hand accounts, but also because of the little factual nuggets buried in them, which are extremely difficult, if not impossible, to find in other sources. Such as Indomitable still having 4" guns on the midships turrets at Jutland, because one of the witnesses to Invincible's demise was hiding behind one. You can search the standard and also the rare and obscure reference books in vain for that bit of data.
 

Daedalus

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Bullethead is it possible to find the data one would need in the plans of the ships and the test trials ? Is one able to get the records of these ship from the governments that built them. I am saying this as I am asking if one can. The company's that built the ships should still have the drawings and specks of the ships.
Is it hard to get the company's to release the records to a person? I am asking as I have never tried to get something like this.
 

Bullethead

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Bullethead is it possible to find the data one would need in the plans of the ships and the test trials ? Is one able to get the records of these ship from the governments that built them. I am saying this as I am asking if one can. The company's that built the ships should still have the drawings and specks of the ships.
Is it hard to get the company's to release the records to a person? I am asking as I have never tried to get something like this.
Yeah, official plans are the ultimate source, the Holy Grail of data. Especially the "as fitted" and "as modified" plans. Many of these are available in various museums. Problem is, this makes them worth their kilobyte size in gold, and the owners of these plans realized this long ago. So except for that French site I posted about a few weeks back, getting hold of the real plans quickly gets very expensive.

This is where historians come in. Browsing the plans is usually free, and making scans is reasonably cheap. So they do this and write a book, which is the more economical option for most people. Problem is, errors and omissions often crop up in the process, as I mentioned in re Conway's above. However, then you can look at photos and find the textual errors in the books. In most cases, this is all that's needed.
 
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