Naval book recommendations

Graf von Spee

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Re: So what are the good Juland "resources"?

A couple of older books are very good reads and sources of information. "The Riddle of Jutland" by Langhorne Gibson, published in 1934, and "The Battle of Jutland" by Commander Holloway Frost published in 1936.
The memory of Jutland was still green then, and Battleships were still considered the most important ships in the fleet.
While neither has the technical data or the damage detail of Campbell's book, they are both more passionate, and set the scene much better. Gibson's book especially reads like a novel at times and is very descriptive.
Another good, but older, source is "Jutland and After" by Arthur Marder. Wonderful Maps and Charts in this one. Plus, as the title notes, goes into some detail of what happened after Jutland, (Blind Mans Bluff scenario)

Regards ANav
Do any of the books you mention (besides Campbell, which does) discuss the Royal Navy's problems with brittle AP shells and volatile cordite propellant?
 

Slider6

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Re: So what are the good Juland "resources"?

For Battleships and Battlecruisers and an excellent preface on the development of.. (page 65-66 covering dreadnought area AP effects, followed by section of torpedoes) I suggest:

Siegfried Breyer's Battleships and Battlecruisers, 1905-1970. (translated from german by Alfred Kurti, my version printed by Doubleday & Campany Inc.)

Has 922 deckplans,cross sections ect. The front is section before the specs and histories of each ship is on the historical development of the capital ship.

480 pages of pure fun.

Do any of the books you mention (besides Campbell, which does) discuss the Royal Navy's problems with brittle AP shells and volatile cordite propellant?
 

anav

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Re: So what are the good Juland "resources"?

I've recently re-read the Gibson book and he doesn't talk about shell or cordite problems. Frost doesn't either. When these books were written those problems might not have been public knowledge.
I haven't read Marder for a long time but he wrote after World War Two so he might address it. Though as I said not nearly the degree that Campbell did. Probably blames the explosions on poor turrett discipline and flash door technology though. I'll have to dig it out and read it again.
If you can find the Gibson book though its worth having just for the joy of reading it. He has the knack for making it seem like your there.

Regards ANav
 

cj95

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Janes's Tsushima?

Hey all...was wondering if there was any anagolous volume to Janes for teh ships involved in the 1904-1905 war?

(I realize Janes was publishing then, but hiose volumes are way out of print)

Specifically anything with nice stats, deckplans and photographs of pre-dreadnought era ships.

Am I out of luck I suppose?:upset:
 

TBR

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Re: Janes's Tsushima?

I've got one German book that contains all ironclads and predreadnought BB's, sort of a pre-Conways, but since every country which had ironclads and/or predreads is in the book with all predread BB classes and some never were designs there is no place for anything but the BB's or their ironclad predecessors, so no info about AC's, PC's and TB's. If anyone is wondering when I'll post the next pictures, the internet connection in my flat is still more than a bit sluggy (hard to explain, perhaps a new years rocket landed in the cellular tower) so I'll have to take laptop and scanner to work and use the cellular tower there after hours tomorrow.

(Crossing fingers that this post will go through)
 

kotori87

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Re: Janes's Tsushima?

I have seen three volumes of Conways. They cover 1860-1905, 1906-1921, 1922-1946. You should find what you are looking for in the first volume that covers up to 1905.
 

cj95

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Re: Janes's Tsushima?

I have seen three volumes of Conways. They cover 1860-1905, 1906-1921, 1922-1946. You should find what you are looking for in the first volume that covers up to 1905.
LOL...I found the Conways volume up to 1905.

At amazon for $260.00 :crosseye:

I dont think so dangit.
 

Bullethead

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Re: Janes's Tsushima?

LOL...I found the Conways volume up to 1905.

At amazon for $260.00 :crosseye:
EEK!! I'd better start taking better care of mine. It's in bad shape already from being thumbed through so much and thrown down after I find what I need in it. Bought it for about $25 off the shelf back in the ealry 90s...
 

Jacktar

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Re: Janes's Tsushima?

I googled 'Conway's naval books' and I see some sites with £45 +postage.Quite a lot cheaper than 250usd. Do these books have photos of the DG ships as well as data ?
 

Bender2k

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Re: Janes's Tsushima?

Everything you need, much more than you need. You've everything from battleship to barges, most ships (and all the major ones) with schemes and photos.
But remember that they're an enciclopedy, not a collection of monography, so op history and design history are really minimized.

BTW, 250 US$ is a steal, I bought mine from Amazon a couple of years ago and they went away for about 60$. As BH said, time to begin nursing my copies...:D
 

Bullethead

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Re: Janes's Tsushima?

Everything you need, much more than you need. You've everything from battleship to barges, most ships (and all the major ones) with schemes and photos.
Each major class usually for major navies has both a line drawing and a photo, especially if the ships changed in appearance. In this case, the drawing and the photo usually are for different times to show the changes. Sometimes, however, all you get is the line drawing or the photo. This is mostly true for minor navies, although sometimes also for major navies if the ships didn't change appearance much. Usually, major navies get line drawings and older navies get photos. As the ships and navies get smaller, sometimes you get neither.

Major units usually have pretty complete stats, but the data block gets sketchier as you get into smaller ships and less powerful navies. Same goes for the textual info on how the ships were designed and their histories.

Each Conway's volume only includes the above types of entries for ships that were built within its timeframe. For ships that were built before then, there is an intro for each navy saying what happened to the earlier ships during the volume's timeframe. This only includes stats, pics, and drawings for these old ships if they had a major overhaul, such as the WW2 volume shows in detail all the upgrades to WW1 BBs between the wars. Otherwise, you need to get the earlier volumne ;).

But remember that they're an enciclopedy, not a collection of monography, so op history and design history are really minimized.
Yeah, each volume was written by a dozen or so guys, who all specialized in certain navies, or certain ships within various navies. Each of them had their own ideas of what was important to convey; as a result, some entries are more informative than others. For instance, some guys never bother to include a ship's range. Other guys go into great detail of where each piece of armor was. You can see who wrote which parts of the books up in the first few pages.

Another thing to keep in mind is that none of these authors seem to have talked to each other. As a result, they sometimes disagree considerably on the stats of very similar ships. This is particularly apparent in the 1890-1910 era when the warship export business was booming and many navies had ships that were either sisters or 1st cousins. Instead of having 1 guy write about all these ships regardless of navy, usually each navy was written by a different guy, who had different opinions. OTOH, this is sometimes useful, because if the guy who wrote about the ship in the navy you're interested in didn't include some piece of data, you can sometimes find it under the sisters in another navy.

Finally, I've discovered an annoying number of typos and misprints in the ship stats in the WW1 volume. By "annoying", I mean there are more than 2 or 3, but less than a dozen, but they're usually about something important.

All this said, however, the Conway's books are VERY good and are USUALLY correct. They're indespensible for anybody aspiring to grog status on this subject :). You just have to keep in mind that they're not infallable.
 

TBR

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Re: Janes's Tsushima?

All this said, however, the Conway's books are VERY good and are USUALLY correct. They're indespensible for anybody aspiring to grog status on this subject :). You just have to keep in mind that they're not infallable.
Keep a healthy scepticism as regards to such encyclopedic works. As I told in another thread Jane's nearly put me aground once (which was the second near running aground that day, the first was a classic: rudder failure at the worst posible moment, running aground averted by swift trained reaction :) ).
 

Bullethead

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Re: Janes's Tsushima?

Keep a healthy scepticism as regards to such encyclopedic works.
Conway's is much more accurate than Jane's for old ships because it has the benefit of hindsight and access to stuff that was once secret. The Jane's books about old ships were written when they were all top secret, so most of the stuff in them was either just informed speculation, "leaked" propoganda, or wild guesses. Conway's got to see most of the original plans and documents before writing anything. Jane's has never bothered to go back and correct their old stuff.
 

TBR

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Re: Janes's Tsushima?

I always found Weyers more the more accurate (and cheaper) contemporary warship encyclopedia than Janes, just not filled with so many graphics and pictures, solely providing recognition silhouettes for most ships (though the later editions have become more filled with photos and are beginning to outgrow the "slightly outsized pocketbook" format in paperback) and they are bilingual, so no laguage barrier for the english speaking customer.

Though amazon.com doesn't have them new, just some used&new ones:

http://www.amazon.com/Weyers-Flottentaschenbuch-2002-2004/dp/3763745165/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232406770&sr=1-2

Amazon.de has the reprints of historical editions in used&new, the 1918 edition is just 25€, the 1943-44edition just 16€!

http://www.amazon.de/Weyers-Taschenbuch-Kriegsflotten-Kriegsflotten-Jahrgang/dp/3763745149/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232406911&sr=8-7
 

mbv

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The Internet Archive - Free WWI Naval History Books

I am sure this amazing source of digitized books that are out of copyright has been mentioned before, but it might be worth a heads-up for new members of the forum.

I was browsing for books on the RN Ironclad Navy and found a whole load of sources relevant to Jutland including the Admiralty publication of the Official Dispatches at the Battle of Jutland. There's a good book on the role of the Harwich Force too and many others. There are a variety of formats and download options for each book.

There are 6 pages of books on the RN alone here........happy browsing :)
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Great%20Britain.%20Royal%20Navy%22&page=1
 

Bullethead

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Re: The Internet Archive - Free WWI Naval History Books

I hadn't found this particular collection. Thanks for the link ;)
 

Rhetor

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Re: The Internet Archive - Free WWI Naval History Books

A bit OT, but should anyone be interested, this awesome site features also digitalized six volumes of Österreich-Ungarns Letzter Krieg ie. the rare official Austrian history of the First World War.
 

mbv

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A couple of recommendations - one old, one new.

A published volume well worth seeking out:


The Grand Fleet: Warship Design and Development 1906-1922 by David K. Brown. First published 1999 by Conway, Caxton reprint 2003. 208 Pages 25cm x 29.5cm.

These are starting to become like gold dust on the secondhand market and you will be lucky to find one below £50 these days, but for the true naval grog the DK Brown volumes on naval ship design and development are a "must buy" as each volume is currently the definitive work on the subject. Others in the series include "Warrior to Dreadnought: Warship Development 1860 to 1905" and "Nelson to Vanguard: Warship Design and Development 1923-1945", there's a post WWII volume too.

Contents include:
Foreword and Acknowledgements
Pre-War Developments
Preparations for War : Attack and Defence - Pre-War Trials
Pre-War Designs
Battleships : Cruisers : Destroyers and Early Naval Aviation : Submarines
Wartime Experience and Design
Major Vessels : Wartime Destroyers and Aviation Vessels : Wartime Submarines
Smaller Vessels and Shipbuilding : Action Damage and the Experience of Warship Design from the Armistice to Washington : The Achievement - The Right Ships and the Right Fleet
Appendices
Views on the All-Big-Gun Battleship
Thorneycroft & Yarrow 'Specials' of the First World War
Riveting : The Stability of a Flooded Ship : Second Moment of Area and Moment of Inertia


Something new out this month from Osprey Publishing:


Author: Robert Forczyk
Illustrators: Tony Bryan Howard Gerrard Ian Palmer

Blurb: The first major clash between a European and Asian state in the modern era signalled the beginning of Japan’s rise as a major power on the world stage. Watched by the rest of the world’s superpowers, this incredibly violent war was disastrous for the Russians who, despite their superior numbers, were defeated by the Japanese underdogs in a spectacular fashion.The key technical elements of firepower, protection, maneuverability and communications for each side are covered in detail and accompanied by first-hand accounts and specially commissioned artwork to explain and illustrate this historically significant duel.

Paperback; February 2009; 80 pages; ISBN: 9781846033308. £12.99 but selling for £9.09 on Amazon.

Contents include:
Introduction • Chronology • Design and development • Technical Specifications: Firepower (main and secondary batteries, fire control, ammunition), protection (armour belts, quality of steel, damage control), Maneuverability (speed, turning ability, sea keeping), communications (internal within ship, with other battleships) • The Combatants: The Japanese Battleship Crew (Composition, individual and crew training, morale, strengths weaknesses and fleet doctrine), The Russian Battleship crew (same as above) • Combat Aftermath
 
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