National Contributions to ASL

Aaron Cleavin

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What gives? Finland is just below New Zealand on the scale of English-speaking populations. Yet Finland arguably has a more active ASL community than the Land of the Long White Cloud.
Hey I won!

Not necessarily disagreeing though, would claim diaspora is a very Kiwi thing. but even considering that not punching where we should be.
 

Pitman

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Hey I won!

Not necessarily disagreeing though, would claim diaspora is a very Kiwi thing. but even considering that not punching where we should be.
I was always surprised nobody did one or more scenario packs tracing NZ in the war.
 

Aaron Cleavin

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I was always surprised nobody did one or more scenario packs tracing NZ in the war.
I have been looking at a Maori Battalion Pack, that one battalion could even begin to deserve 10-12 scenarios is astounding.

the actions though are all there, "At the feet of Zeus" is in decent form. Takrouna can be re-realized in a number of ways


exploring and expanding on the the one scenario gone before. the existing version of 42nd street in Kreta is purely mythical in having the Maori follow

The Aussie charge rather than vica versa.


One of the challenges is in deciding whether the Maori battalion should be more like Japanese rather than European troops.
 
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bprobst

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I was always surprised nobody did one or more scenario packs tracing NZ in the war.
They're not 'Murrican and they didn't wear SS uniforms. Those are the only two reasons to get extra scrutiny in ASL, right?

:hush:
 

Robin Reeve

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They're not 'Murrican and they didn't wear SS uniforms. Those are the only two reasons to get extra scrutiny in ASL, right?

:hush:
Right. And not having SS Americans saves us from monoculture in scenario design.
 

dlazov

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Personally I'd love to see some good NZ, Aussie or even Divisional packs. Like just a pack on say the Soviet 1st Motorized Division, or some unit studies of NZ/Aussie units in the PTO, etc.

The MTO has a lot of color too for the Western Allies fighting there.
 

Paul M. Weir

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One Soviet unit I would like to see covered is the 4th Tank Brigade which under the then Col. Mikhail Katukov fought very well at Mtsensk 1941. As a result of that and subsequent actions it was renamed 1st Guards Tank Brigade and Katukov was promoted to Maj. Gen. (equivalent to US Brig. Gen., 1 star).

1st G. T. Brig. later became part of 1st Tank Corps.

Katukov commanded 1st Tank Army, later renamed 1st Guards T. A. from 1943 to the end of the war and by the time he retired in 1963 he had reached the rank of Marshal.
 

dlazov

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+1 that would be an excellent Pack 4th TB to 1st GTB to 1st GTA...
 

Paul M. Weir

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+1 that would be an excellent Pack 4th TB to 1st GTB to 1st GTA...
I was more thinking 4th TB to 1st GTB to 1st TC, not sure as of yet which TA/Army that 1TC was part of later. The TC and Mech Corps could be shuffled around between (T)A.

Your idea would be following Katukov which would be 4th TB to 1st GTB to 1st TC to 3rd MC to 1(G)TA which would be another very good way to make a chain. I think he was the best of the Soviet Armoured commanders. Not only was he quite successful but I get the impression that he was less likely to make expensive blunders, a great economiser of forces.
 

Pitman

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Personally I'd love to see some good NZ, Aussie or even Divisional packs. Like just a pack on say the Soviet 1st Motorized Division, or some unit studies of NZ/Aussie units in the PTO, etc.

The MTO has a lot of color too for the Western Allies fighting there.
New Zealand had one understrength division in the PTO that was used primarily as a garrison and mopping up force that saw extremely little combat until it was disbanded during the war.
 

Mister T

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One of the challenges is in deciding whether the Maori battalion should be more like Japanese rather than European troops.
While i respect the fact that you want to pay tribute to the NZ natives contribution to the war, don t overdo it. Upgrade them to Gurkha status would already be something (if there is enough evidence for that already, of course you are better placed than me to assess it).
 

jrv

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While i respect the fact that you want to pay tribute to the NZ natives contribution to the war, don t overdo it. Upgrade them to Gurkha status would already be something (if there is enough evidence for that already, of course you are better placed than me to assess it).
They need their own counters. Just sayin'.

JR
 

Aaron Cleavin

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While i respect the fact that you want to pay tribute to the NZ natives contribution to the war, don t overdo it. Upgrade them to Gurkha status would already be something (if there is enough evidence for that already, of course you are better placed than me to assess it).
You are right in terms of the CC. However some form of Banzai is definitely also required, I think as you say the step reduction would be a move to far
 

Justiciar

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.....However some form of Banzai is definitely also required, ....
I don't think this was summoned up by NCOs or COs in the same manner as the Japanese...but rather would be modeled by a different strata of HOB DRM....which might very well be 'treat as Japanese.'
 

BattleSchool

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I don't think this was summoned up by NCOs or COs in the same manner as the Japanese...but rather would be modeled by a different strata of HOB DRM....which might very well be 'treat as Japanese.'
A15.1 HOB TABLE: * Treat as Berserk if: Japanese, Gurkhas, Partisans, Fanatics, Commissars, SS vs Russians, or subject to No Quarter (A15.5)
Which is another reason why treating Maoris as Gurkhas might work.

But I am less convinced that granting them HW ability is warranted.

Edit:

After some further thought, it might be interesting if the Maori were capable of some reckless charging in scenarios set prior to May 1943. (Due to a number of reasons, the performance of the Maori battalion in Italy was less remarkable.)

A simple SSR could permit additional Maori units (treated as Gurkha per SSR) in the same/ADJACENT Location to go berserk per A15.41. This would remove control from the owning player and simulate the spontaneity of a bayonet charge.

Alternatively, a historical charge could be triggered by an SSR-mandated HC (Haka Check).* ;)

In all cases, an SSR should suffice to portray the unique fighting style of Maoris in Greece and North Africa.

*EX: Crete 27 May 1941 "42nd Street" Dr. Monty Soutar, a Maori historian, states that "The instant Maori reaction--a haka followed by a charge made more terrifying for the hapless enemy by the sound of war cries--typified the Maori style of fighting throughout the war." McGibbon, Ian. Ed. The Oxford Companion to New Zealand Military History (Oxford University Press: Auckland, 2000): 309. In case you're wondering, the Maori didn't pause to do a war dance. A Maori war cry is also known as a haka.

McGibbon's 600-page volume is an excellent general reference. Found my hardback copy in a government book shop in Wellington in 2003. Scored a bunch of other Kiwi military-history titles at the same shop. The army museum in Waiouru has a decent book shop too, but I found the selection in Welly much better.
 
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clavain

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Big (long term dedication) points to Pete. Outside On All Fronts, Rout Report (those kooky DAGGER guys), VFTT was one of the things I picked up and then always looked forward to seeing. Was glad to see it's still around and kickin'.
Hear hear. And Jon forgot to mention it in his latest Point Blank when he mentioned surviving 'zines in his American-centric list... :devious:
 
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