Musty Nostalgia

ericmwalters

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The question is...what old game do you have fond memories of...you dragged it down from the top shelf to play...and then realized, upon playing it, that you were victim of "musty nostalgia"...once you began playing you realized why you'd left it up on the top shelf of the closet because better games had come along?

The key here is that there was something that still draws you to the game, some experience you had or something about it that warms to you. But once you actually get back into the game, you realize, to your sad horror, why other games have passed it by, leaving it in the dust (figuratively, if not literally).

Got this thread idea from the other one, wondering about what old games you'd still play today. Some of the reponses genuinely surprised me...until I thought of this.

For example: I still keep PANZERBLITZ and PANZERLEADER on my bookshelf. I even take them down and fondle the boards, the pieces, read the scenarios and remember old battles past. But I tried playing them both once and realized why I hadn't played either of them in so long. The games were too chess-like compared to the higher levels of fog and friction found in other tactical games I'd played since. The terrain seemed to stylized and the system too oriented around the armor, to the detriment of the artillery and infantry.

But what drew me and continues to draw me to both these games? One, it's the graphics--the boxes scream at you to play the games. The game pieces and boards still look great and look good together. Two, it's the warm memories of playing these games when I first got into wargaming in junior high and high school...two player games with friends, home-brewed "Race To Berlin" scenarios for three players using both games, creating home-made Katyusha and Maus pieces, etc. We grew up on these games.

Since then I've been spoiled by PANZER COMMAND (Victory Games), GDW's ASSAULT series (the best system for that scale, though "modern" era), MECH WAR 2 (SPI), West End's TANK LEADER series, and now Avalanche's PANZERGRENADIER. I won't even get into ADVANCED TOBRUK SYSTEM and ASL (which are at different scales, after all).

In contrast, I can pick up RUSSIAN CAMPAIGN or PANZERGRUPPE GUDERIAN and they feel just a fresh and exciting to play them now as it did when I first began playing them in 1976. Interestingly, I've been equally spoiled by newer games, but they didn't necessarily seem to replace these. GMT's EAST FRONT SERIES is great, but I still like PGG. I've never run across a relatively simple Russian Front game I liked better than RUSSIAN CAMPAIGN.

What games have you wistfully reminisced about like a long-lost girlfriend, only to find them again and realize why you separated so long ago?

--emw
 

jguritza

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Good question!

I would have to say Fortress America. A good friend of mine grew up around the block from each other and when we discovered the game we built the game up to be the end all game. We spend days and nights over the summer huddled over his parent’s pool table to play the game.

Years after, all we had to do was mention Fortress and we would both smile and nod in a shared experience. His parent then moved to South Carolina. During the move his parents packed up all my friends’ games in a large box which he then inherited before they moved. The box stayed in his basement for years before it was even touched. Fortress America lay in wait.

Thanks to my friend’s “Honey Do” list from his wife, he had to go through the box. I received a frantic phone call about a day later. All he said for the first 5 minutes was “I found it! I found it!” I finally managed to get the whole story and we both eagerly agreed to play the game the following weekend. It would be one more game of Fortress America just like old times.

We set the game board up almost instinctively and quickly glanced over the rules. We then played he game. I really wish we had not. It totally shattered any good memory or notion we might have had. “For the love of God and all that is holy what were we thinking?”

What I failed to mention is we through the years stepped up to Risk, then Axis and Allies. We played the entire Civil War series from Avalon Hill and had some major drawn out battles with Third Reich. Going back to Fortress America ruined any good memory we might have had. Sadly the game has gone back into the same box. The memory of the game is there and the fun times we had but we should have never played it again.
 

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not exactly a wargame, but I have had very fond memories of CarWars. Man, I loved that game!. LOVED IT! It was great for h-t-h, solo or team play. You could have a game as big and complex or as simple as you needed. there was just enough RPG to make you care about your charater, too.

I also have fond memories of a TSR mini game from '80 or '81 called "Saga". in it you were a norse hero trying to acheive the lofty goal of becoming heroic enough to take over the known world and enter valhalla, all the while battling monsters, gathering followers and treasure along the way. I tired to play it about a year ago and it didn't hold my attention like it did back in the day.
 
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Fond memories, but--nah

I'd have to say just about every wargame I've ever played falls into this category. That's why, in the summer of 2000, I finally sold my whole collection of wargames and 'zines.

As I was packing them up, I experienced some powerful pangs of nostalgia. More than a few times, I asked myself, "Can I really let go of this one?" But harsh reality always made me end up answering yes. Every one of them was so big & complicated & time-consuming I'd never play it again. Not when I can do something very similar on the computer, with much less hassle (and with the bonus of animation, sound effects, music, etc.).

But a year or two later, I started browsing eBay, getting nostalgic for all the wargames listed there. Had to restrain myself from buying some just for old times' sake.

I have bought some new games, though. I'm experimenting to see if there's some way I can recapture the old joy without all the attendant fuss. So, I bought Battle Cry and the Dixie card game, hoping they'd be quick to set up, fast to play, and still as enjoyable as any other wargame. The jury's still out, but I haven't played either game in quite a while. Trouble is, new games are never nostalgic.
 

Pete G

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not exactly a wargame, but I have had very fond memories of CarWars. Man, I loved that game!. LOVED IT! It was great for h-t-h, solo or team play. You could have a game as big and complex or as simple as you needed.
Great example, and I have a couple editions of CW here on the shelf (the big difference being the change in the timing and number of action segments per turn, IIRC). Would love to play that one again, but it's a hard sell with my gaming buddies given the perception that there's a lot of bookeeping involved. Fair enough, I guess. Still a winner -- and zipping around on that Sunday Drivers map is an absolute kick.

Along those same lines, I keep breaking out my old TSR Fight in the Skies and Dawn Patrol games, yet never get around to setting them up. I know DP is supported on VASSAL, so that might be an avenue to explore. It's been ages since I've played, which means hitting up the rules from square one again.

That's one of the biggest dealbreakers in the "musty nostalgia" gambit -- the investment versus the return. We have fond memories, but will they live up to play today? When time is short, it's easy to go with what you know, and that's generally a proven performer that's been purchased and enjoyed in recent years. In sum, it's much easier for me to set up an SCS game from The Gamers/MMP than root out my copy of The Air Eaters Strike Back! and get it going again.

-Pete
 

JohnnyWilson

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SPI Prestags

I won a bid for the SPI Chariot from the Prestags Series. I had that kind of musty nostalgia for Legion, but didn't have an opponent, and I was interested in creating some scenarios based on biblical era kings and situations. A friend of mine came down to visit and as we were talking about what to play, I proudly opened up Chariot. We looked at the generic rules and the very few rules changes made to capture any historical flavor and both of us quickly realized that the games were fun, but we wanted something with a little more historical detail and a little more pizzazz.

I DID later use Chariot to illustrate a biblical battle for my Sunday School class, but we didn't play it. I just moved the pieces to demonstrate a point about terrain and maneuver. To the Sunday School class, it looked fresh and cool. That is because none of them had played a wargame before. I have since taught one of my fellow members how to play GBoH: Devil's Horsemen and Sword of Rome. Now THERE you have flavor.
 

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I'm not sure about "not liking any more", but I do have some gaming activities that still bring back "memories" as you have seemed to imply.

As a young teen, I played a lot of Squad Leader with a budy that liked ABBA as much as me. Now, when I hear ABBA I time travel back to the early days of Squad Leader.

I can still recall my first encounters with rolegaming, which back then was Dungeons and Dragons, not a bajillion spin offs. But comically enough, it was not Dungeons and Dragons that began the groups obsession with rolegames. It merely gave us a properly made rolegame.
We began with a small SPI board game called Time Tripper. You're in Vietnam, and a radioman. While screwing around with the radio, you actually open a portal to various time travel events. You and your immediate personel and whatever random gear was handy, might suddenly be dealing with an angry T-Rex armed only with an E-Tool a grenade, and some rations.
The guy that owned the game went to great lengths to flesh out gear and character generation, and in no time we were playing the game way in excessive of its original design purpose :)

I can still recall playing Tactics II and Midway with another local friend while becoming more and more interested in making models. The games now look very basic, and back then, my models sucked :)

Most of my games of today, are the more flashier games of the 80s though. Boards were more detailed, counters were a lot more colourful.

Sadly, I no longer have my Tactics II, Midway, Blitzkrieg, or Squad Leader.
 
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Roberts

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Yeap once they are gone they seem better

Patrick Carroll said:
I'd have to say just about every wargame I've ever played falls into this category. That's why, in the summer of 2000, I finally sold my whole collection of wargames and 'zines.

As I was packing them up, I experienced some powerful pangs of nostalgia. More than a few times, I asked myself, "Can I really let go of this one?" But harsh reality always made me end up answering yes. Every one of them was so big & complicated & time-consuming I'd never play it again. Not when I can do something very similar on the computer, with much less hassle (and with the bonus of animation, sound effects, music, etc.).

But a year or two later, I started browsing eBay, getting nostalgic for all the wargames listed there. Had to restrain myself from buying some just for old times' sake.

I have bought some new games, though. I'm experimenting to see if there's some way I can recapture the old joy without all the attendant fuss. So, I bought Battle Cry and the Dixie card game, hoping they'd be quick to set up, fast to play, and still as enjoyable as any other wargame. The jury's still out, but I haven't played either game in quite a while. Trouble is, new games are never nostalgic.

I realized I didn't play most of them any more and I sold 80% of them. I'm not sure why I kept the ones I did....well in fact because they were relatively easy to set up.
 

ddm_aka_t34c

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For me it was Avalon Hill’s 1914. Finding it again was like visiting, as an adult, the house I lived in as a child. It’s a nice little house, but were the rooms really that small? I remember them being so much bigger…

I bought 1914 when it came out and played it, solo as well as face-to-face. Then I lost my copy somewhere along the way.

I never really liked the game, however much I forced myself to try. Playing it was interesting for 2-3 turns, as the Germans moved to grab as much of Belgium as possible. Then it always became a tedious battle of attrition, with little maneuver. I rarely finished a game.

I say I never liked the game, but I always admired it. I think that’s what kept me coming back. This game in its day was pure state of the art. It had step reduction, different CRTs for different sizes of forces involved, even an inverted counter option. And don’t forget the random events cards: You picked yours, the other guy picked his, you looked up the results on a matrix, and the outcome (Italy enters the war on the Allied side, revolt in French North Africa, whatever) could change the whole complexion of the campaign. Talk about CDGs! Here was a CDG practically before they invented cards!

Over the years, these features loomed larger and larger in my imagination, turning 1914 into a super game. So when an opportunity came along two years ago to snag an unpunched copy on E-Bay, I jumped at it.

I was underwhelmed when I opened the box. One countersheet? No way! There must have been at least five! Four pages of rules? Are you kidding me? The Battle Manual was nice, but somehow all the optional rules that were so innovative in 1968 seem somewhat tame now.

I’m sure my opinion of the game-play wouldn't change if I were actually to play 1914 again. I didn’t like it back then, and I wouldn’t like it now. But I still admire it, only in a smaller way.
 

BuckeyeMiniMe

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My first wargame ever was Blitzkrieg. I just bought a used copy off of ebay just for nostalgia's sake. I know if I set up the board, I'm going to wonder why I was ever hooked. It's just not the same playing on a fictional board when you can play ASL! Nevertheless, it's like my first :love: , I'll never forget how different it was than anything else that I'd ever played before and it set me on the path to wargaming.
 
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Ultimate Wargame

ddm_aka_t34c said:
For me it was Avalon Hill’s 1914. . . .

I never liked the game, but I always admired it. I think that’s what kept me coming back. This game in its day was pure state of the art. . . .
I can relate to that! When I was new to wargaming (around 1970), I bought a used copy of 1914 just to see what it was like. I figured it would be way beyond my ability (a friend and I were just learning how to play wargames via Kriegspiel and Waterloo), but I still wanted to see what the "ultimate wargame" was like. That's how it was billed, as I recall--the ultimate wargame, the last word in historicity.

And I was naive enough to believe that then. I continued to believe it even when I tried to play, found many errors and ambiguities, and had to write several multi-page letters to Avalon Hill asking for clarification.

I'm a bit more experienced and less naive now. But I find that I still long for the "ultimate wargame" just as much as ever. A wargame that will stand the test of time and always be close enough to perfect. A wargame that could be my one game for life, never failing to be everything I'd ever want a wargame to be.

That's my main disappointment with all the games I used to have in my closet: each time I bought a new one, I hoped that at long last I'd found the "ultimate wargame." And each time, the game came up short. So, looking over my old games was like looking over a long list of failed experiments, knowing that I never did have a successful one.

Sure, I got a few thrills out of each game. Maybe that's all I had any right to expect. But I always wanted more--much more--especially from a game that requires such a time investment and has such a steep learning curve. And the older I get, the more important that is to me. I refuse to face the learning curve or make a big time investment anymore without a guarantee that the game is going to pay dividends for the rest of my life.

And I've been disappointed by too many high-hope games like 1914 to fall for the promises of the supposedly latest and greatest wargames. Nowadays my criteria are:

1. Is it small enough to set up instantly (or within a few minutes) and then play within an hour or two?

2. Is it realistic (detailed) enough to engage my imagination and give me a satisfying wargaming experience?

3. Is it challenging without being daunting? (I don't want a game like Chessmaster that's going to wipe the floor with me every time unless I work extremely hard at putting up a tough fight.)

4. Is it infinitely replayable? (I hate puzzle games--games or scenarios that are "solved" after playing a few times.)

5. Is it simple enough that I can actually learn the rules and keep them in my memory? (I don't want to be forever referring to rulebooks and references; at some point I want to have learned how to play the game.)

6. If it's historical, is it true to the historical events it covers? Does it model them accurately and credibly?

7. Is the theme of the game something that I'm strongly interested in or attracted to? (I like some historical periods much better than others.)

Even if all the above criteria are fulfilled, I still feel a measure of resistance, because there is no specific theme (battle, campaign, war, period, or genre) that's likely to hold my interest in the long run. So, if the game covers just the Battle of Gettysburg, for instance, I'm going to pass on it; I know that narrow subject is only going to interest me for so long before I get tired of it. I greatly prefer something open-ended--like most miniatures rules, which can be used to re-create any engagement from the period covered, at the scale covered. (The downside of that is that most all the scenarios are do-it-yourself propositions.)

In short, the ultimate wargame is still proving to be elusive. :nuts:
 
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