Multiple combat rounds.

[rasmus]

In the neverending quest for glory, multiple combat rounds is a must. It has been mentioned that the maximum number can exceed ten. In order to achieve this one must be able to conduct attacks without spending at least 10% of your time. As the minimum movement penalty is two points, the unit must have at least 20+ MP and only expend one of these on the attack.

Now I have tried several attacks with a 20+ MP units but have been unable to achieve any combat rounds without at least a 10% decrease in my time available.

What am I missing?

 

[Kraut]

In the neverending quest for glory, multiple combat rounds is a must. It has been mentioned that the maximum number can exceed ten. In order to achieve this one must be able to conduct attacks without spending at least 10% of your time. As the minimum movement penalty is two points, the unit must have at least 20+ MP and only expend one of these on the attack.

Now I have tried several attacks with a 20+ MP units but have been unable to achieve any combat rounds without at least a 10% decrease in my time available.

What am I missing?

You have to have positive shock (I don't think it's possible at shock 100) and you need units who only show grey blocks in the combat planer dialog. Start your attacks, in the next round plan attacks with units who haven't moved and have lots of movement points; than hit go. With some luck you won't waste another combat round. Maybe EA is good for testing, especially with the Case Yellow bonus you should be able to achieve at least some turns that dont wast combat rounds.

 

[Dicke Bertha]

Would this be regardless of complexity?

 

[rasmus]

You have to have positive shock (I don't think it's possible at shock 100) and you need units who only show grey blocks in the combat planer dialog. Start your attacks, in the next round plan attacks with units who haven't moved and have lots of movement points; than hit go. With some luck you won't waste another combat round. Maybe EA is good for testing, especially with the Case Yellow bonus you should be able to achieve at least some turns that dont wast combat rounds.

Thanks. Does this happen a lot to you?

 

[Bdr.Mallette]

Watch mp of units.

If you have 50% of turn left, search through all your units to find odd numbered mp for units(i.e. 5 left of 9mps, 6 left of 11mps)
Using these units to limit attack, should spend zero combat points and will allow you to continue attacks. It is best to limit attacks if you are trying to use a lot of Combat rounds.

I think! works for me.

 

[Kraut]

I managed to get free combat rounds approx one or two times times so far, but some of my opponents managed if more often. But it depends a lot on the scenario, for example it's pretty improbable to achieve multiple combats if you have to advance aswell, because movement almost always denies the propability of free combat rounds. In a game of Braunschweig my opponent only managed multiple combat rounds (approx 15) because he didn't move/atatcked at all in the south and completely focused his attacks on Stalingrad. Mantis got his 26 combat rounds against me in a game of EA were a single AA unit continuously attacked my Maginot Line forts until they evaporatd. In all my DNO games I never managed to get a free combat round, normaly I am already happy if the first attacks don't eat up more than 50% of my turn

 

[ER_Chaser]

In the neverending quest for glory, multiple combat rounds is a must. It has been mentioned that the maximum number can exceed ten. In order to achieve this one must be able to conduct attacks without spending at least 10% of your time. As the minimum movement penalty is two points, the unit must have at least 20+ MP and only expend one of these on the attack.

Now I have tried several attacks with a 20+ MP units but have been unable to achieve any combat rounds without at least a 10% decrease in my time available.

What am I missing?

What are you missing? YOU are missing MANTIS, the BUG of Evil!

Ask him about how to make multiple rounds

Shane, where are you? I cannot hear ya, eh!

 

[Wolf]

I believe he holds the record at 28 rounds

 

[tigersqn]

I believe he holds the record at 28 rounds

Yep. 28 combat rounds.

However these were done with a positive shock effect and liberal use supply drain attacks(both players agreed to them).

If you run a search, you should be able to find the thread that talks about this.

 

[Kraut]

If you run a search, you should be able to find the thread that talks about this.

Here it is

I still have the old PBL file and I've just rewatched it ... still unbelivable While watching it I only counted 27 attacks, but I didn't watched it step-by-step so it's entirely possible that I've missed one attack that I catched back than

Mantis, what's your email? I think you might like to have that playback for nostalgic reasons, something to show your grandchilds sometime to brag about your 133t TOAW $k1llz :laugh:

To all: sorry, I can't make this replay public because the password I used back than is still the password I use for my ongoing games

 

[Mark Stevens]

"You have to have positive shock (I don't think it's possible at shock 100) and you need units who only show grey blocks in the combat planer dialog."

"If you have 50% of a turn left, search through all your units to find odd numbered mp for units(i.e. 5 left of 9mps, 6 left of 11mps)."

"Mantis got his 26 combat rounds against me in a game of EA were a single AA unit continuously attacked my Maginot Line forts until they evaporated."

Might as well carry on flogging this now very dead horse, but am I the only player reading this who doesn't consider it a cause for general congratulation? Not because EA gets a mention, but the general principle of the thing?

Rasmus, abjure these tactics: if you want to launch an attack, position your units as best you can, with as much strength as you can muster and - yes - try to get artillery or bombers on combat support within range, and then press Resolve Attacks. Maybe you'll get another round or two, maybe not. But you'll sleep peacefully at night.

 

[JAMiAM]

Mark,

When you play chess, do you limit yourself to only moving your rooks a distance of one square per move? I find it mighty unrealistic that some stone and mortar castle should be darting about the map in such a mobile fashion? How about en passant? Isn't it a bit cheesy that the pawns get to move during the opponent's turn? And those bishops? As an avowed atheist, I find their strength way too enhanced. They should only be able to take the ignorant peasants (the pawns).

 

[Kraut]

Rasmus, abjure these tactics: if you want to launch an attack, position your units as best you can, with as much strength as you can muster and - yes - try to get artillery or bombers on combat support within range, and then press Resolve Attacks. Maybe you'll get another round or two, maybe not. But you'll sleep peacefully at night.

With that tactic: try a game of DNO against me and I guarantee you that I'll stop your german forces after latest a month dead in their track at the old polish border and the mighty Wehrmacht will be utterly defeated by the soviet army and T-34 will rumble into Berlin latest 1942.

Try to get as many combat rounds as possible and you'll experience the Blitzkrieg in it's true glory and you might even be able to copy the german successes.

Now, which strategy/game sounds more historical ?

With all due respect, EA is really a bad example because it was designed for the old board-gamer and if played that way it really works great and is a blast, other (most) scenarios are designed in a way that require both players to use all their trick to achieve victory. And as I said, for example in DNO these multiple (free) attacks are almost impossible because DNO has a far lower shock bonus and a far bigger front = far more attacks/turn and at least some of these attacks are doomed to screw up your planing.

DNO example: the Wehrmacht conducts some recon attacks, say just 3 recon attacks along the entire front and the main attacks are planed for the next combat round becaus the recon attacks are only expected to last 1 combat round (= approx 10h). Now, one attacking finnish regiment in the far north keeps on attacking and attacking , displaying 'axis forces continue attack' almost forever and in the end only 20% of your turn remain. This is what I call unrealistic! The entire Wehrmacht WAITS until a single attack by a finnish regiment is resolved ?? For 3 days ? :nuts:
There should be an option 'prohibit continueing attacks' or limiting the time units are allowed to continue attacking and if they didn't manage to bring the battle to a decisive end they are ordered to break off. Thats a feature I miss the most in TOAW

 

[Mark Stevens]

To each his own: I just don't want any new players visiting these forums to read threads like this and think that's the only way to play TOAW. Even if you believe this is the best way to play the game, you must (?) agree that the discussion sounds artificial.

I've played most of the scenarios supplied with the CD over the last four years, and a lot more that I've downloaded from various scenario depots. Provided that you're playing a like-minded opponent, or the AI, you'll still see that tank formations break through defended positions and can then exploit, artillery and bombers (covered by fighters) are useful to support either attacks or defence, and all of the other features one might consider realistic in modern warfare, without the need for this type of micro-management.

And Kraut's right: I'd be chopped to pieces trying to play the game my way against a practitioner of these Dark Arts. But I am currently playing a game of DnO at the moment, as the Soviets, with an opponent who thinks as I do. German armour and motorised still streaking ahead, outdistancing its supporting infantry, sometimes finding it difficult - but not impossible - to dislodge large Red Army infantry concentrations entrenched behind rivers and supported by artillery, so best to encircle them, Luftwaffe leapfrogging forward to captured airfields so Red Air Force units often reorganising (we're only up to turn twentyish), i.e. all the features I'd expect to see in this type of Eastern Front scenario, which is a stunning piece of design. My opponent's using his light reconnaissance units to scout ahead of the main body, trying to clear the roads and locate defended locations, unoccupied river crossing points, etc., but, and this to me is the important thing, is not using it to make ten attacks a turn on a hex with several infantry corps and reducing them to impotence. I know, they're radioing in for air and artillery strikes, although it still works even if there's no air or artillery in range.

So, speaking from several year's experience, it is perfectly possible to enjoy a realistic and challenging game without hunting down all of your units with an odd number of movement points three-tenths of the way through a turn, and I think that's worth emphasising to anyone interested in TOAW.

Now, back to that game of chess I'm playing against JAMiAM where I'm not doing so well because of my stubborn refusal to accept that my knights have an integral airborne capability...

 

[JAMiAM]

Now, back to that game of chess I'm playing against JAMiAM where I'm not doing so well because of my stubborn refusal to accept that my knights have an integral airborne capability...

LoL Mark, don't even get me started on those hippity-hoppity, horsey boys...

 

[Bdr.Mallette]

I think stretching the tactical combat phase is the best way to go. The more fun in my opinion. Gives you a chance to think ahead a few combat rounds, plan your turn accordingly and forces you to push home the attack if you had really high goals this turn. I always set goals that turn, and try to reach them, if I think I can't, by, let's say 40% left, than I have to change strategy to either digging in soon or repositioning for a defensive posture because I won't achieve my offensive goals for that turn. Your turn is offensive, his turn you're defensive, plan respectively.

sounds correct to me, no?

i think it would be better if the combat phase had an actual time lapse (i.e- start is @ 12 pm, 20% left is 10 pm, depending on time scale)

 

[rasmus]

I did it. In my braunschweig game against DB I finally managed to have a combat round without, anu time deduction. Now that is has been tried I will get on with my gaming career.

 

[Dicke Bertha]

Ouch! :surprise: :shock:

Well, this means total war! :cheeky:

 

[Baiqi]

Multiple combat rounds are essential in some large scenarios, especially when the attack side will have resource shortage in later stage. But there is a big difference between multiple combat rounds and supply drain attack. You can commit a large amount of troops to the attack and still achieve multiple combat rounds, but you need to plan the attack very carefully, especially when you can not avoid move/attack kind of thing. Achieving multiple combat round in supply drain kind of attack is quite automatic. I have to agree that supply drain attack is a cost efficient(or cheap) tactic to decimate the other side's resource, but it is not essential or fun to win a scenario.

 

[Mantis]

Mantis got his 26 combat rounds against me in a game of EA were a single AA unit continuously attacked my Maginot Line forts until they evaporatd.

It was 28 rounds, and it was my Finns pounding against your oppressive Russian invaders!