Multiple CCRF vs bypassing enemy AFV

SFiedler

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Situation:

A German tank tries bypass sleaze vs a Russian stack (8-1, 628. ?527, ?527) in a building. As the AFV must cross a wall to bypass the MP cost is 3.

PAATC is needed to attack. Ldr aids the 628 which also passes PAATC. They attack on movement point 1 and manages to immobilize it.

Q1 at the second MP the remaining 2 squads want to CCRF as well. Can teh leader aid them in their PAATC?

Q2 The CCV is 5 for a sq -1 streetfigth +2 motion and -1 immobilized?

Q3 Can FPF be used when doing CCRF ?

Q4 Do they need a PAATC one per unit or once per attack?

/S
 
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jrv

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1) I think the leader can aid any number of MMC. Also there is no mention of limits on the aid, i.e. it can be marked with First Fire.

2) CCV = 5 for squad. DRM are -1 bypass (= street fighting = ambush), -1 immobilized, no +2 because it is for "non-stopped," and if the vehicle is immobilized, it is definitively stopped.

3) CCRF can be done as many times as Defensive Fire [D7.2]

4) D7.21 "A DEFENDER need not pass more than one PAATC to attack the same vehicle more than once during the same (A.15) phase."

JR
 

SFiedler

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1) I think the leader can aid any number of MMC. Also there is no mention of limits on the aid, i.e. it can be marked with First Fire.

2) CCV = 5 for squad. DRM are -1 bypass (= street fighting = ambush), -1 immobilized, no +2 because it is for "non-stopped," and if the vehicle is immobilized, it is definitively stopped.

3) CCRF can be done as many times as Defensive Fire [D7.2]

4) D7.21 "A DEFENDER need not pass more than one PAATC to attack the same vehicle more than once during the same (A.15) phase."

JR
Thanks.

Follow up Qs:

Q5 There is a modifier for CCRF attacking when marked first fired/final fire?

Q6 can SD be used when immobilized. Either in the MPh it becomes immob or later?

/S
 

EagleIV

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5) a unit's CV is reduced by one if it's FP is halved (as it would be for being marked first/final fire)

6) You can fire the sD in a later MPh, but the unit's MPh ends when it is immobilized.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Q5 note that the Street Fighting -1 DRM does not apply when marked by First/Final Fire.
 

Russ Isaia

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The vehicle's MPh does not end when it becomes Immobilized, unlike when it bogs or becomes shocked.
So, the immobilized vehicle could try its smoke discharger, but it is still a "Stopped" vehicle (and thus the +2 DRM does not apply) because it is no longer a Mobile vehicle (C.8/D.7)?
 

jrv

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So, the immobilized vehicle could try its smoke discharger, but it is still a "Stopped" vehicle (and thus the +2 DRM does not apply) because it is no longer a Mobile vehicle (C.8/D.7)?
Moving/non-stopped only applies to sM, so I assume that is what you want to discuss. The DRM is for moving/non-stopped (C.8), not purely for stopped/non-stopped. A vehicle can be stopped and indeed immobilized and still be considered a moving (C.8) vehicle. A vehicle immobilized during its turn after entering a new hex (etc) would still be considered moving, and so would pay the extra +2 DRM. A vehicle immobilized before it re-acquires its moving status (e.g. one immobilized in the enemy MPh by bounding first fire) would no longer be a moving/non-stopped vehicle and so would immediately be able to use its sM without the +2 moving/non-stopped DRM.

JR
 

volgaG68

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So, the immobilized vehicle could try its smoke discharger, but it is still a "Stopped" vehicle (and thus the +2 DRM does not apply) because it is no longer a Mobile vehicle (C.8/D.7)?
The +2 for moving/having moved never applies to a sD DR, perhaps you are thinking of a sM DR.
 

Russ Isaia

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The +2 for moving/having moved never applies to a sD DR, perhaps you are thinking of a sM DR.
Sorry, I conflated two issues.

One is whether a vehicle immobilized by CCRF on the expenditure of its first MP of its move can squeeze off smoke (sD or sM) before the expenditure of its second MP (the OP posed a 3 MP expenditure, bypassing across a wall). The answer seems to be yes, because the vehicle, despite being immobilized, has not yet ended its MPh.

The second is whether that same vehicle is a Non-Stopped vehicle for purposes of whether any subsequent CCRF attack (either by the same unit, on a subsequent expenditure, or a different unit, on the same expenditure) suffers from the +2 DRM for a Motion/non-stopped vehicle. The answer seems to be no due to the vehicle not being a Mobile vehicle but I am less sure about that 'cause no one here said that except me!.
 

jrv

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The second is whether that same vehicle is a Non-Stopped vehicle for purposes of whether any subsequent CCRF attack (either by the same unit, on a subsequent expenditure, or a different unit, on the same expenditure) suffers from the +2 DRM for a Motion/non-stopped vehicle. The answer seems to be no due to the vehicle not being a Mobile vehicle but I am less sure about that 'cause no one here said that except me!.
An immobilized vehicle is always Stopped even though (in ASL terms) it may still be Moving (C.8). The game uses unfortunate terminology, and you have to accept it. I have thought that "Moving" could perhaps be better called "shifting", but although that distances the two ideas a bit, it does not completely separate the two game ideas.

JR
 

bendizoid

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Remember, you only get the -1 for bypass ambush once a phase.
 

kcdusk

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if a MMC enters CC with a vehicle, street fighting, does the MMC remain in the street hex after the AFV leaves, or does the MMC return to its "house" hex?
 

jrv

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if a MMC enters CC with a vehicle, street fighting, does the MMC remain in the street hex after the AFV leaves, or does the MMC return to its "house" hex?
D7.211 "A unit entering a wire Location must remain above that Wire counter as per B26.4 but a Street Fighting unit may not voluntarily remain in the road Location during CC Reaction Fire."

So aside from wire, a unit might end up pinned/broken due to mines/FFE/Residual FP and so have to remain in the road location involuntarily. Otherwise the unit must return to its starting location.

JR
 
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