Mueller's collusion probe faces questions of legitimacy and fairness

Dr Zaius

Chief Defender of the Faith
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
May 1, 2001
Messages
18,598
Likes
516
Points
113
Location
The Forbidden Zone
First name
Don
#1
I have said from the beginning the chips should fall where they may regarding the 'collusion' investigation in Washington. If there really was an orchestrated attempt by Americans to work with foreign powers to influence the US presidential election, the public needs to know what happened and those responsible should face the music.

But there are a lot of disturbing signs this operation is less a fair and impartial investigation and more of a deep state coup.

I for one am increasingly uncomfortable with the FBI's conduct in this case, and its steadfast refusal to cooperate with congress and turn over information under congressional subpoena. Where does the FBI think it gets authority to defy congress?

Double-Crossing FBI Agent Sends Shock Waves Through D.C.

Top Clinton Aides Also Lied to FBI, Face No Charges

We're Learning Mueller's Probe Is Rotten to the Core

Washington Post: Time For a Special Counsel to Investigate the FBI

Mueller Credibility Plunges, Trump Probe Imploding
 

Dave68124

Active Member
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
14,797
Likes
498
Points
83
Location
United States
#2
Well Trump is rarely right IMO, but he has a point. If lying to the FBI gets one indicted, then Mrs. Clinton should have an indictment at her door step as well. The whole purpose of a Special Prosecutor is to take the politics out of the process...this one appears to be super-charged with politics. Eventually Trump is going to have enough political cover to fire him which will lead to more unnecessary drama.

What happen to people doing their jobs in an ethical manner?
 

Sparafucil3

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
17,391
Likes
1,381
Points
163
Location
USA
First name
Jim
#3
According to the FBI, Clinton didn't lie to them. There is no penalty for lying to us.

As for the rest, honestly, I would expect the daily wire to print those stories as much as I expect CNN to print the contrary view. The truth is somewhere in the middle. -- jim
 

Paul M. Weir

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,137
Likes
2,051
Points
163
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
#4
All the above more smell of what the T administration is leaving in it's collective pants than anything else. "That smell? The dog farted!"

As for a pro-Clinton bias, the previous FBI director put at least one nail in C's campaign coffin.
 

Jazz

Inactive
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
11,129
Likes
845
Points
113
#5
Looks like Trump's spin doctors are applying themselves. Can't wait for the next wave of indictments.
 

TopT

Active Member
Joined
May 2, 2004
Messages
2,560
Likes
338
Points
83
Location
Pa
#6
4 years of investigations & 80 Million spent for Whitewater and nothing on the President Clinton except we expanded and expanded and expanded the investigation until we were able to pin him with lying to a grand jury about an affair that had nothing at all to do with Whitewater. So with a Democrat the investigation goes where it goes, hmmm...

4 years of investigations & 82 Million spent on Benghazi and nada, zip, zero but we did get Hillary on a Server that she had but again had nothing to do with Benghazi. Again, with a Democrat the investigation goes where it goes, hmmm...

8 months of investigation of Trump & about 7 Million spent (so far) and we have 4 indictments, 19 charges, 2 guilty pleas but Mueller is getting out of where the investigation was supposed to go. Really?!? He is just getting started and you all know it.
 

Sand Bar Bill

Active Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
4,338
Likes
366
Points
83
Location
Putin's backyard
#7
4 years of investigations & 80 Million spent for Whitewater and nothing on the President Clinton except we expanded and expanded and expanded the investigation until we were able to pin him with lying to a grand jury about an affair that had nothing at all to do with Whitewater. So with a Democrat the investigation goes where it goes, hmmm...

4 years of investigations & 82 Million spent on Benghazi and nada, zip, zero but we did get Hillary on a Server that she had but again had nothing to do with Benghazi. Again, with a Democrat the investigation goes where it goes, hmmm...

8 months of investigation of Trump & about 7 Million spent (so far) and we have 4 indictments, 19 charges, 2 guilty pleas but Mueller is getting out of where the investigation was supposed to go. Really?!? He is just getting started and you all know it.
It just is absolutely impossible not to circle the wagons no matter what. LOL.
 

Sand Bar Bill

Active Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
4,338
Likes
366
Points
83
Location
Putin's backyard
#8
Legitimacy and fairness... if the only thing different in the entire situation was we had President Hillary instead of Trump, you all would be on her like a pack of wolves. And so would our GOP Congress, undoubtedly impeaching her at this moment.

Instead, it is attack the prosecutor time because it is Trump.
 

Dave68124

Active Member
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
14,797
Likes
498
Points
83
Location
United States
#9
What's most disturbing is the cheerleader like attitude you guys have. Like you are wishing for it. I don't like Trump, but you guys actually disgust me. Willing to destroy all to earn a victory and a minor political victory at that.

Couldn't do it at the ballot box, so need to find another way to do it. I guess there is no shame on the left.
 

Paul M. Weir

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
8,137
Likes
2,051
Points
163
Location
Dublin
First name
Paul
#10
What's most disturbing is the cheerleader like attitude you guys have. Like you are wishing for it. I don't like Trump, but you guys actually disgust me. Willing to destroy all to earn a victory and a minor political victory at that.

Couldn't do it at the ballot box, so need to find another way to do it. I guess there is no shame on the left.
I'm sure that the US "left" see T as a danger both to the country and it's people. If you want to look at it stone cold, the Ds should do everything they can to ensure that T lasts 4 years so they can hammer the Rs at the next few elections. The guy has an unerring aim at his own feet and the GoP, the best restorative tonic the Ds have got in years. Between T, GoP controlled House and Senate, they have made the ACA very, very popular, something the Ds would be incapable of if they had 50 years to promote it.

Simply, T is the best thing to happen to the Ds in many decades. So tell me, what should the Ds do?
 

Blackcloud6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
10,705
Likes
595
Points
113
Location
Shangrila
#11
So tell me, what should the Ds do?
Depends on what you want their goal to be. If it is simply to win elections and regain/stay in power then they are doing what they should be be doing because that is how American politics work: immediately begin to erode the opposition's stature in the eyes of the voters. This is what the Tea Partyesque wing of the Rs did to Obama and the democrats, same against Bill Clinton, same against GW Bush and the Rs... heck, there are folks out there still trying to destroy Reagan's and Carter's legacies... because it fits the strategy of fighting on the extremes. Why, the extremes are dramatic and people love drama. The strategy is that the other side can do no right and is always doing this or that for nefarious purposes. Reinforce the notion by picking at minor infractions and make them seem like worst crime of century. The Dems will not impeach Trump, but they will act like they are going to do so on any perceived transgression in order to always paint the administration in a bad light. This is the same reason why the Rs kept voting on repealing the ACA but never did and still won't. It is why many other so called "issues" never get solved. These "issues" remain because they are divisive and division by salami slicing the issues is what works in American politics. They wouldn't do it if it didn't work because there is too much at stake and too much money involved. Both parties paint the other side as being stupid, rubes, idiots, morons, crooks etc. But both sides are run by very shrewd, intelligent, ambitious and ruthless people. They are pretty much the same. They don't really care about issues because issues are merely the ammunition in the struggle for power and money (and I would say sex but that aspect is no longer seemingly working). The democrats and republicans are just different sides of same selfish, power hungry, money grubbing, unethical coin of American politics that has being rolling around the floor since 1787.
 

Dave68124

Active Member
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
14,797
Likes
498
Points
83
Location
United States
#12
You guys don't get it. Every time the D's put up an impeachment motion or continue to scream Russia from the top of their lungs, they provide Trump with cover. Sitting on the other side, it is not hard to spot the complete hypocrisy of the Left and Media in their claims. It makes people like me who don't like or support Trump to say "Hold on minute - that is unfair reporting, claims, etc."

If the D's would just shut the fuck up, Trump will eventually destroy himself. He cannot help it. In 4 years, if the D's run even a half-competent candidate (unlike Hillary), they have the keys to AF One again. There was no reason Bush should have been re-elected in 2004, but the Bush Derangement Syndrome kicked in and Bush got more votes in 2004 than he did in 2000 - all thanks to the Dems and Media that pushed the middle to say this guy isn't getting a fair shake and that isn't the American way.

BTW - Obama got the same benefit when the Reps went bat shit crazy on stupid shit as well.

The more the Dems squawk, the better off Trump will do.
 

JimWhite

Active Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
3,961
Likes
371
Points
83
Location
Newark, Delaware
Skype
jim_white33
#13
I'm sure that the US "left" see T as a danger both to the country and it's people.
Yet when the US "right" saw Obama as a danger both to the country and its people...they were labeled racist.

So I guess the US "left" is just a bunch of beta-males/feminists/minorities who hate white, Christian, conservative men?
 

Dr Zaius

Chief Defender of the Faith
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
May 1, 2001
Messages
18,598
Likes
516
Points
113
Location
The Forbidden Zone
First name
Don
#14
You guys don't get it. Every time the D's put up an impeachment motion or continue to scream Russia from the top of their lungs, they provide Trump with cover. Sitting on the other side, it is not hard to spot the complete hypocrisy of the Left and Media in their claims. It makes people like me who don't like or support Trump to say "Hold on minute - that is unfair reporting, claims, etc."

If the D's would just shut the fuck up, Trump will eventually destroy himself.
^This.
 

Jazz

Inactive
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
11,129
Likes
845
Points
113
#15
You guys don't get it. Every time the D's put up an impeachment motion or continue to scream Russia from the top of their lungs, they provide Trump with cover. Sitting on the other side, it is not hard to spot the complete hypocrisy of the Left and Media in their claims. It makes people like me who don't like or support Trump to say "Hold on minute - that is unfair reporting, claims, etc."

If the D's would just shut the fuck up, Trump will eventually destroy himself. He cannot help it. In 4 years, if the D's run even a half-competent candidate (unlike Hillary), they have the keys to AF One again. There was no reason Bush should have been re-elected in 2004, but the Bush Derangement Syndrome kicked in and Bush got more votes in 2004 than he did in 2000 - all thanks to the Dems and Media that pushed the middle to say this guy isn't getting a fair shake and that isn't the American way.

BTW - Obama got the same benefit when the Reps went bat shit crazy on stupid shit as well.

The more the Dems squawk, the better off Trump will do.
Agreed. The Democrats should quit squawking and let Mueller apply the due diligence to lever the fool out of power, as the current congress sure as hell won't.
 

Dr Zaius

Chief Defender of the Faith
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
May 1, 2001
Messages
18,598
Likes
516
Points
113
Location
The Forbidden Zone
First name
Don
#16
Well, at least Democrats are finally admitting this has nothing to do with Russia, it's all about overturning the election.
 

Jazz

Inactive
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
11,129
Likes
845
Points
113
#17
Well, at least Democrats are finally admitting this has nothing to do with Russia, it's all about overturning the election.
Not that I've heard Don, but what the hell, if the preside3nt can make it up as he goes, you should be able to as well.....

As far as I am concerned is is still all about Russia and the selling out of the country to benefit his Russian kleptocratic role model.
 

JimWhite

Active Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
3,961
Likes
371
Points
83
Location
Newark, Delaware
Skype
jim_white33
#18
Not that I've heard Don, but what the hell, if the preside3nt can make it up as he goes, you should be able to as well.....

As far as I am concerned is is still all about Russia and the selling out of the country to benefit his Russian kleptocratic role model.
He probably should have just sold Russia some uranium...
 

JimWhite

Active Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
3,961
Likes
371
Points
83
Location
Newark, Delaware
Skype
jim_white33
#19
Not that I've heard Don, but what the hell, if the preside3nt can make it up as he goes, you should be able to as well.....
Obama made it up as he went...and so did we.

Now you say Trump is making it up as he goes...so why shouldn't you...

The circle of life continues...
 

Sparafucil3

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
17,391
Likes
1,381
Points
163
Location
USA
First name
Jim
#20
You guys don't get it. Every time the D's put up an impeachment motion or continue to scream Russia from the top of their lungs, they provide Trump with cover.
I disagree. I think the investigation into Russia is getting too hot to stand. Hence, you wag the dog and recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Suddenly, something else is front page news. Problem solved. -- jim