Mtr fire against unknown unit

Simon62

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H,

we have a situation where a Mtr has defensive fired at a target in a level 1 building location, the unit has broken and routed away, the Mtr no has a -1 area acquisition on the hex. In the subsequent advance phase a new enemy unit advances into the ground floor level of the building which is out of site of the Mtr that has the acquisition on the hex.

In the next prep fire phase can the Mtr fire at the hex even though it now doesn't have a known target but does have acquisition to try and ht the unit in the ground floor location that it effectively does not know is there?

Any help would be appreciated - we cant find anything that stops this it just doesn't seem right
 

Mister T

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In the next prep fire phase can the Mtr fire at the hex even though it now doesn't have a known target but does have acquisition to try and ht the unit in the ground floor location that it effectively does not know is there?
No, see C3.4
 

Simon62

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thankyou - that's cleared that one up
 

The Purist

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Gents,... See C3.33 as well as C3.4.

A mortar can fire on an empty hex, using ATT with a +2 TH for "Concealed Target" and still hit units out of LOS..

Note the EXC for mortars in C3.33.

The unit not in LOS can still be affected by the ATT shots at the upper level of the building with the Acquisition taken into account - -1 Target Acq, +2 '?' target.

It's 'spec fire' but legal (and used like crazy in the Dinant CG looking for HIP spotters in church steeples, etc. ? )
 

The Purist

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Mmmmm, ok,.... happy to be proved wrong (certainly not the first time) but in the recent Dinant CGs, the Germans have been shooting into empty hexes with mortars and other direct fire units with the +2 TH for ? units, or Area Fire (in the search for HIP spotters). I was the French and it seemed fine with me if the German wanted to spend his time doing so and risking sniper attacks.

How is this different from shooting at an empty steeple and effecting units at lower levels that may be out of LOS (I know,... the 'logic' argument :) )?
 

klasmalmstrom

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Mmmmm, ok,.... happy to be proved wrong (certainly not the first time) but in the recent Dinant CGs, the Germans have been shooting into empty hexes with mortars and other direct fire units with the +2 TH for ? units, or Area Fire (in the search for HIP spotters). I was the French and it seemed fine with me if the German wanted to spend his time doing so and risking sniper attacks.
That can certainly be done to possibly hit hidden unit in Locations that are in LOS of the weapon/unit firing.


How is this different from shooting at an empty steeple and effecting units at lower levels that may be out of LOS (I know,... the 'logic' argument :) )?
Normally out-of-LOS units are immune (per C3.4) - but C3.33 has an EXC that lets those unit be hit, if the hardest-to-hit non-hidden unit is hit.
 

Fort

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Mmmmm, ok,.... happy to be proved wrong (certainly not the first time) but in the recent Dinant CGs, the Germans have been shooting into empty hexes with mortars and other direct fire units with the +2 TH for ? units, or Area Fire (in the search for HIP spotters). I was the French and it seemed fine with me if the German wanted to spend his time doing so and risking sniper attacks.

How is this different from shooting at an empty steeple and effecting units at lower levels that may be out of LOS (I know,... the 'logic' argument :) )?
It is in the rulebook, like so many other caveats, to prevent player omniscience from doing such things as shooting at upper levels looking for HIP units and just by 'coincidence' hitting that juicy target that's out of LOS in bypass along the back of the building.
 

The Purist

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I understand. It just seems that shooting at empty hexes 'in general' is already a bit iffy. So called 'spec fire' was normally done approaching defiles, choke points, etc., but the game allows it over a frontage of nearly two kilometers in Dinant and other CGs as scenarios. Continuing to fire at a location that held enemy troops in order to discourage their return does not seem all that strange by comparison.

After all,... a scenario with a HIP unit allows spec fire, a scenario without HIP units does not. o_O

But!! It is what it is.
 

stuh42asl

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I fire at empty hexes with mortars to deny my opponent areas they can hide in or move thru. Works well in RB/RO for the Russians. I have held off an entire german company with two 81mm and 3 50mm mortars. Put all five in a row each with a -2 Area aquisition especially open ground and then try to move thru that. Not using assault movement and moving in open ground = -4 to hit. Great for you. Also good for rubble locations. And try to move thru a treeline with -2 acquisition on each hex. Got to love airbursts.
 
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